What is the appropriate way to rate fighters across different time periods?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by TinFoilHat, Sep 19, 2014.


  1. TinFoilHat

    TinFoilHat Boxing Addict Full Member

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    We all know historians/sports writers/boxing fans/ love to compare fighters across time.

    But how do you actually do it?

    Do you act like the fighters step out of a time portal and meet in a ring in another dimension and they fight it out?

    Or does the fighter of the past have the graces of modern technology/nutrition/training for a few months and then the fight takes place.

    Or do you act like the fighters you are comparing grew up during the same time period?


    Perhaps maybe you don't even act like they are fighting each other, you just compare what they did vs their competition... But what if the competition they faced was weak?


    It's extremely obvious skill/knowledge has increased over the years and people fight differently. Do you just look at what was known about boxing at the time and how much they embodied it?

    Discuss.

    :think
     
  2. Thread Stealer

    Thread Stealer Loyal Member Full Member

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    It's pretty difficult and basically just depends on one's opinion.

    I try to take into account the fighters' resumes, abilities, achievements, the era and circumstances in which it took place.

    It is very difficult when you do H2H with the really old-time fighters. Boxing made major strides in technique in the 30s and 40s. That's where a lot of boxing when from "primitive" to much more scientific (with some exceptions of course).

    The last couple decades have seen a decline in overall quality. Particularly in the last decade or so. There's a serious decline in technical skills as a whole. In-fighting and proper footwork being two very noticeable declines.

    All the politics and alphabet crap make it hard to compare since you have to look at everything in context, and that can take a lot of time. Boxing had less divisions and two recognized titles from the 20s until the 80s. It wasn't until the 60s and 70s when divisions became more commonly split in champions. Usually one fighter had both titles.

    Now you have a "Big 4", like it's a ****ing public accounting firm. Way more titles to choose from. WBC, WBA, IBF, WBO, super and regular champs and all this other ****.

    I may seem like I'm overcritical of Miguel Cotto. He's actually one of my favorite active fighters, it's nothing against him, but moreso the way boxing is nowadays with all the alphabet crap. People were saying him winning titles in 4 weight classes makes him an ATG. But you look into the context of whom he beat for those vacant titles from 140-154, it is far less impressive than fellow Puerto Rican Wilfred Benitez winning titles in 3 divisions because of whom El Radar beat and how many titles he had to choose from.

    Floyd Mayweather won titles in 5 divisions, Manny Pacquiao is on paper the most decorated champion with titles in 8 divisions. You look at the context in which they won the titles and whom they beat....there are fighters with less titles who most would consider better fighters in their peak than Floyd and Manny, and greater fighters overall. And I think both Floyd and Manny are ATGs.

    One thing I do not rate on, which some people do, is impact due to popularity. Jack Dempsey was VERY important to the sport of boxing and its growth, but that doesn't boost his all-time rating for me.
     
  3. Nonito Smoak

    Nonito Smoak Ioka>Lomo, sorry my dudes Full Member

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    Resume. How great their opponents were and how they did against them.

    Difficult to gauge and even harder to stay consistent, though.
     
  4. slash

    slash Boxing Addict Full Member

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    quality of opposition
     
  5. TinFoilHat

    TinFoilHat Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ok, good responses from everyone. Especially want to thank Thread Stealer. It's a good point to bring up that there are more weight classes and 2x as many belts in each of them. This means that there are probably 6x as many more champs today than their were in the classical era. he rating method you describe seems fair and well rounded.

    Now Nonito and slash you guys think that quality of opposition is the most important thing. However, how do you rate the opposition? If they fought the best opposition in the era during a weak era, how do you rate that?