What is the difference between Calzaghes and Pacs wins ?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by stonerose, Dec 8, 2008.


  1. stonerose

    stonerose Guest


    top post, agree with it all.
     
  2. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    It hurts me to agree with this as I like Stonerose, but this thread is ****ing abysmal.
     
  3. stork

    stork Active Member Full Member

    808
    0
    Oct 18, 2008
    im a slappy fan but the jones win was pretty pointless and he didnt have to overcome the many phisical disadvantages manny had to against dlh.
     
  4. stonerose

    stonerose Guest


    whats abysmal is double standards, and i like you too but you have them in spades.
    i credit pacman for his win, not as much as if oscar would have put up any kind of fight ,but its a big achievement. but the amount of **** people talked after what was an impressive performance against an ageing jones who looked far better than DLH was ridiculous. i am merely pointing this out.
    both good wins, both tainted by the other guy being past it.
    if DLH was still anywhere near his best then we would be talking about this win in years to come as one of the best of recent times. i suspect we won't be.
     
  5. BadJuju83

    BadJuju83 Bolivian Full Member

    3,941
    2
    Sep 19, 2008

    You sound it.:rofl
     
  6. Nestea

    Nestea Thirst Remover Full Member

    7,336
    0
    Feb 25, 2008
    Every Pac fights:

    Pacquiao VS Barrera I
    Before: Barrera is P4P #3, its a walk in the park
    After: His camp was on fire and he was shot

    Pacquiao VS Marquez I
    Before: Marquez is the technical master of all
    After: Judges are corrupt

    Pacquiao Vs Morales I
    Before: Morales was a legend
    After: I told you so!

    Pacquiao VS Velazquez
    Before: Hector is a top fighter
    After: He is a bum

    Pacquiao VS Morales II
    Before: He will get another beating from Morales
    After: Morales is shot

    Pacquiao VS Larios
    Before: Larios is a very durable fighter
    After: Izzy KOed him at 4 while Pac can't

    Pacquiao VS Morales III
    Before: It was only a bad night, Morales will prevail
    After: He was shot(again)

    Pacquiao VS Solis
    Before: He is undefeated
    After: He is a bum

    Pacquiao VS Barrera II
    Before: Barrera will sought revenge
    After: Barrera is shot

    Pacquiao VS Marquez II
    Before: Marquez would counter him all night long and win
    After: Judges are corrupt

    Pacquiao VS Diaz
    Before: No way can Pac win against a legit lightweight
    After: Diaz was a paper champ

    Pacquiao VS Hoya
    Before: Hoya TKO1 Pacquiao and thats with mercy
    After: Hoya is shot!!!!
     
  7. hopkins54

    hopkins54 Active Member Full Member

    776
    0
    Feb 13, 2008
    people who picked hoya thought he would hydrate back to 160 but pacquio was actually heavier on fightnight and thats why he gets no credit from me.

    calzaghe beating jones like that was much more impressive.
     
  8. BadJuju83

    BadJuju83 Bolivian Full Member

    3,941
    2
    Sep 19, 2008

    People who thought he would rehydrate to 160 forgot the stipulation in the contract and Oscar's love of money.
     
  9. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Reason 1 why Manny's win over Oscar is much better than Joe's over Roy:

    In Oscar's last 2 fights, he took the undisputed world pound-for-pound number 1 to an SD then beat Forbes arguably more comfortably than Berto did in Forbes's next fight - and Berto is supposed to be the next big thing at 147.

    There was no real hard evidence that Oscar was shot going into the fight last night - not like RJJ getting sparked cold by guys he would have annihilated in his prime, guys nowhere near the p4p class of the guys Oscar has lost to, and then dropping down a level (or two) to fight non top 10 ranked guys like Prince Nobody, Hanshaw (stopped in 4 or 5 rounds in his next fight after Jones outpointed him) or a horribly rusty, overweight and shot-to-**** Tito Trinidad. The Oscar who fought Floyd and Forbes is a far better fighter than the Jones who fought Hanshaw and Trinidad, that should be obvious if you take the blinkers off.

    Jones hadn't been performing effectively at the highest level since 2004 - FOUR YEARS. Oscar had, he took the world p4p#1 to an SD 18 months ago.

    And please stop with this **** about Jones performing better than Oscar, he did not. He got a KD because Calzaghe was complacent knowing Roy was shot and he got hit with a forearm. If Calzaghe had ANY power in his punches, he would've stopped Roy in the middle rounds. Manny has power.

    Reason 2 why Manny's win over Oscar is much better than Joe's over Roy:

    Manny Pacquiao jumped TWO weight divisions to fight Oscar, a former flyweight world champ (112lbs) fighting a former middleweight champ (160lbs). This one reason in itself, all of the physical advantages Oscar had, are enough to make it a far better win.

    Reason 3 why Manny's win over Oscar is much better than Joe's over Roy:

    Manny was a huge underdog going in, Calzaghe was a huge favourite - work it out.
     
  10. stonerose

    stonerose Guest

    there was no evidence going into the fight that he was shot, you're right although he was certainly slowing down. but what on earth does that matter when the evidence after the fight is that he was totally ****ed, a shadow of his former self ?
    and what does it matter about whether he was favorite before the fight? it has no baring whatsoever on the fact that Oscar was completely ****ed .if the bookies would have known this then he wouldnt have been favorite would he.

    i'll repeat , i give credit to both fighters, you only give credit to one . but i am clueless ?
     
  11. Nestea

    Nestea Thirst Remover Full Member

    7,336
    0
    Feb 25, 2008
    The diffence is that nobody including analyst gave Pac a mere chance

    David Avila, Riverside Press-Enterprise:
    De La Hoya KO 7. He's too big and fast for Pacquiao. He's a bigger version of Juan Manuel Marquez and just as fast, taller and can take a punch. I saw Manny almost get knocked out by Victor Ortiz when they were sparring this spring.

    Tim Dahlberg, Associated Press:
    De La Hoya by decision. I just think the size differential is too much.

    Tim Smith, New York Daily News: De La Hoya TKO 5. I think he's just too big for Manny Pacquiao. If he can't beat or stop Manny Pacquiao, then it's time for him to get out of boxing. He's the bigger guy and normally bigger guys that are better beat little guys that are better.

    Dan Rafael, ESPN.com: De La Hoya TKO 7. I view this fight in a similar way as the (Bernard) Hopkins-De La Hoya fight. Not that the fight itself will be like that, but you have a situation where there's the smaller fight against the bigger guy. The smaller guy might be competitive , hang around and win some rounds, but the bigger, more powerful guy eventually got the job done."

    George Willis, New York Post: Oscar De La Hoya by decision. De La Hoya is the bigger fighter. I think his reach will be a factor during the fight. I think Pacquiao will put up a better fi ght than people think and it will be close for most of the fight. But I think Oscar's size, ability and reach will make the difference."

    Kevin Iole, Yahoo.com: De La Hoya TKO 6. The reason I like Oscar is because size in the fight is such a big issue. Manny has fought 75 per cent of his fights at 122 or less. Oscar has held a middleweight title. Oscar is slow and not as skilled as Manny is, but I just believe when they're in there throwing punches, Manny is not going to be able to take that left hook. Sooner or later Oscar is going to be able to land it. Oscar has a great chin, so I know he's going to be able to take Manny's shots.

    Lance Pugmire, Los Angeles Times: De La Hoya because he's naturally bigger.=2 0I believe he still has the power. It hasn't been that diminished over the years. His naturally bigger size will allow him to overpower Manny and get a knockout or TKO somewhere around the ninth round.

    Chris Mannix, SI.com: De La Hoya's size will overwhelm Pacquiao. He's just far too big. It's a little ridiculous to say that he can't pull the trigger any more. I see this as a very easy knockout for De La Hoya in about six or seven rounds. Pacquiao will be bull-rushing in and take one or two hits and go down.

    John Whisler, San Antonio Express-News: De La Hoya KO 8. Oscar is bigger and I think sooner or later Pacquiao will run into the left hook.
     
  12. stonerose

    stonerose Guest

    plenty of " experts " picked jones jnr too. and again, what do predictions matter when not one of these guys had any idea what a **** condition DLH was in.
    if you would have told them that DLH was a shot fighter, every one would have changed their prediction.not hard is it ?
     
  13. boxbox

    boxbox Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,220
    0
    Feb 4, 2006
    getting beat up in a fight does not necessarily mean you're shot. MAB was ****ed the first time...he continued to dominate after that. MAB was the favorite, not as the bigger favorite last night. But the major factor is still the opponent. A lot of fighters looks shot after Pac which isnt really the case. Proven by their successful matches right after.
     
  14. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    But you aren't simply giving credit to both fighters, you are saying that the wins are of comparable value, which they very obviously aren't.
     
  15. MancMexican

    MancMexican Blood & Guts Forever Full Member

    5,152
    0
    Apr 23, 2006
    The difference in the comparable value in the fights is simple.

    Joe had ZERO physical disadvantages going into the fight with Jones. Pacquaio is a naturally much smaller fighter than DLH.

    Pacman forced a TKO. Joe was never close to stopping Roy.

    And that's without going into Jones vs DLH's past opponents over the previous 4 years.