What Is The THIRD Greatest Win In Heavyweight History?

Frazier-Ali, Schmeling-Louis I (II may be first in terms of worldwide significance), Ali-Foreman --these are all great choices.

Beleive it or not, I would choose Foreman-Moorer for the top spot. It was Ali-Foreman II in spiritual/emotional way and it was an exorcism in the life of Foreman... "The Ghosts of Zaire". The fact that Foreman reclaimed the title 20 years after he lost it against a young, hard-punching undefeated southpaw champion while wearing the same worn-out red and blue trunks makes it high drama.

Foreman is Odysseus.

 

1. Louis/Schmeling I--Louis was not at his destructive peak, but he was close. This win was the more dominant than Ali/Frazier I, Louis was very slightly better as a heavyweight than Ali (#1 as opposed to #2), and Louis was roughly as far from his peak as Ali was in FOTC.

2. Ali/Frazier I--Ali was a superior heavyweight to Foreman, so Frazier's win over him (albeit a slightly past prime version) was a better win.

3. Tyson/Douglas--Tyson was also slightly past his peak at this point, and, since he was not quite as good as Ali or Louis, but was better than Foreman, this deserves to be #3.

4. Bowe/Holyfield--An explosive, clear victory over Holyfield when the latter was at his peak. Ali/Foreman is arguably above this one, but I felt that the "Zaire factor" played into the latter somewhat.

5. Ali/Foreman--Foreman was at his destructive heavyweight peak here, and despite the effects of the unpleasant climate, loose ropes, and psych-out, he was just as dangerous as he was against Frazier during the early rounds.

 

I disagree with those who say Louis wasn't at his peak for the first Schmeling fight. If he underestimated Schmeling then that's his own fault, other than that all of his ring-skills looked no different than they would in years to come, in my judgment.

 

Depends on how the question is intended to be answered. If it means greatest when viewed by the impact it had during its time and for its worth historically I'd list the top 5 something like this:

1 Louis-Schmelling II
2 Johnson-Jeffries
3 Ali-Frazier I
4 Dempsey-Tunney
5 Ali-Foreman

Some of those could be interchangeable and there might be a couple that could be argued in like Ali-Frazier III, Sullivan-Corbett, or even Tyson-Lewis


If the question is greatest win based on the caliber of the opponent beaten than I'd put it something like this:

1 Ali-Frazier I
2 Louis-Schmelling I
3 Lewis-Rahman I
4 Ali-Foreman
5 Holyfield-Bowe I

I'd have no problem seeing Tyson-Douglas in there either. Maybe I'm forgetting one or two but these are the ones that stick out for me.

 

this is certainly a beaut, but perhaps a shade or two behind Ali's masterpiece versus Foreman.

 

Bowe over Holyfield in 1992.

 

Partially agree--this is why I rate Louis above Ali (if it wasn't for Louis's dominance, there may have been plenty of other three-way battles for the title).

However, Ali and Frazier made their reputations independently of one another prior to FOTC.

 

Here's how I look at it:

1971--

Ali is a former champion, whose reign was quite impressive. Not top 10 material, but top 15. (EDIT: On second thought, his record still extremely good. He was arguably top 10 at this point). Frazier has not yet become a top 15 heavy, but he's close because he destroyed everybody else in the heavyweight division.

Frazier beats Ali, and automatically becomes close to a top 10 guy (few beat a top 15 heavy when they are close to their prime).

1972-1977--

Ali beats many contenders OTHER THAN Frazier, while he himself is long past his prime. This confirms his greatness independent of Frazier. Among those he beats is Foreman, who is clearly the best of the early 70's aside from Ali and Frazier...although Foreman is not, in my opinion, a top 10 heavyweight, nor is he an ATG at this point in his career.

Frazier's reputation is built upon his win over Ali and his pre-1971 run.


1990's--

Foreman comes back and blasts out Moorer, remaining relatively successful up until his "loss" to the guy who held the WBO belt recently, and did decently against Lennox Lewis. This, combined with his victories in the 70's (Lyle, old Frazier x2, Chuvalo, Norton) gives him enough of a claim for being an ATG...albeit an overrated one.





The only one who contributed massively to his opponents' legacies is Ali for Frazier in FOTC...but that makes sense. They didn't contribute to each other's greatness any more than is typical for any era's contenders and champions.

 

This is certainly an interesting question. Before making a decision, i would have to consider some of the possibilities (i havent selected one or two yet). Using caliber of opponent, starting at John L, i would have to consider:

Fitzsimmons v Corbett - Arguably the greatest ever at the time, undefeated superstar who totally outweighed fitz and was a big favourite. Only slightly passed his prime.

Jeffries v Corbett - Corbett was past prime, but he fought brilliantly. Not many champions would have turned back this challenge.

Jeffries v Sharkey - Sharkey was as tough as they come with a very good record. Was never a champion but would have been in many eras. This is as good as any win against any no 1 contender (who never became a world champion).

Willard v Johnson - Johnson was admittedly old, but in all honesty, this was still a very good win.

Tunney v Dempsey - It might not have been prime Dempsey, but he still knocks out most fighters in history at that point in time.

Braddock v Baer - An underated win. He did undertrain, but it was still a very good win.

Louis v Schmelling - Both of these fights were great wins for each of them, but probably slightly more so for Schmelling who did beat arguably the greatest ever when he was very very close to his prime.

Louis v Walcott - Walcott's performance was extremely impressive on this night, a great performance by a future world champion who was close to his best. Walcott nearly upset a past prime but very dangerous all time great. Not many in history at all would have repelled that challenge.

Frazier v Ali - It goes without saying that Frazier's win was absolutely massive. In all honesty, was there more than a handful of guys that even dream of beating that version of Ali?

Ali - Liston - An old Liston but he was still dominant at the time and the only real signs of deterioration was the speed and skill of Ali.

Ali - foreman - A prime all time great who was undefeated, it really doesnt get much better than that.

Spinks - Holmes - Spinks beat a past prime all time great who went on to compete extremely well against modern super heavys up to 10 years later. It wasnt the best Larry Holmes but it was still a hell of an effort.

Tyson - Spinks - Most will laugh at this, but Spinks was a lineal champion who had beaten an All time great, and he was disposed in a round. Spinks deserved a lot better (and would have performed a lot better against most all time greats). This is a very underated win, simply by the sheer dominance of it.

Looking at the list, i say, on a preliminary basis it should read:

1. Schmelling Louis
2. Frazier Ali
3. Foreman Ali
4. Fitzsimmon Corbett

 

great list but no metion of Patterson vs Johansson Patterson had 4 defences and a record of 35-1 and the 1 being a robbery Johansson was 22-0 and knocked down the champ 7 times before it was stopped and the 2 went on to have a great trilogy

 

NO 1 ZAIRE!

 

Marciano Charles 1, and perhaps Walcott 1 needs to have be consider in this group of 3rd or 4th ete.

 

did the Ali Foreman fight had executions under the ring or something during the build up?? Thats what I heard.

 

Douglas over Tyson is #1 considering the odds - no other way to look at it