What is ur HW top 10?

Yes and no.

Well, I have different opinions on the same fighter. It depends what point of view I´m taking. Like with the Iraq war. From an ethical and moralic point of view my opinion is it was wrong and a crime. From an long term strategic view, based on Huntingon´s theorry of the clash of cultures, I think it was brilliant. I have both opinions at the same time. Same here.
That´s one thind another one is ... I often don´t have a firm opinion due to lack of knowledge. My knowledge is inferior to most people on here. But when I take a strong stand in a discussion, I have to back it up, I have to do some research and learn from it and I learn much from the arguments from my "opponent". I think you can learn more from a good discussion than from reading a book.
Another thing is, I often take on the weaker position just for the sake of it. That´s why I always defend guys like Ruiz and Ottke even when I don´t really have a high opinion of them. Somebody just has to.

But that´s not really my problem, is it?

Well, see above.

Well, like I said Tyson creeped up. I had Tyson low and I underrated him. Mostly because of his fanboys, I think.

Well, yeah that can be confusing. A bit.

I have two opinions but not two lists - well, I have no list actually.
I see where you come from and yeah that can be confusing. :good

Only that ithe cheating fighter should drop in the rankings. Don´t know how far though. Would he have been able to do the same things without ´roids? If not what would he have doen without them? So much speculation.

I think depth is important. Bowe has great top wins but lacks the depth for example. Can´t see how he rates inside a Top20 due to that.

 

Haha so true. This is why Pachilles is classic and under-appreciated. It's not an insult to Bodhi, it's just the way he comes off. Maybe cultural differences...

I know I can be a "dick" too, apparently.

 

Actually, it´s a compliment to me. I´m from a blue collar family but I´m the first one who finished a higher school and graduated from an university. And I did so all by myself without any support from my family or the state - and according to the OSZE Germany one of the hardest country in Europe to do so. So, when he says I come of as white collar, it´s just a validation of my accomplishments and a compliment. So, thank you Mr. Pachilles. :good

 

But how can you have such a strong opinion to point of arguing about it, only to have an inclusive roid-bearing list that detracts your same stance and supports the view of the opposing argument. It's just hilarious to me. I'm sorry. I get it though... you've just changed your mind and not willing to admit it (That you were once strong on that old opinion too).

It is when the problem is your memory (Or maybe it's just mis-communication?).

So you like to be go against the grain if you find the grain to be unjustified.

Alright, at least you see why I was lost there for a second.

 

I've always thought it to be a cultural thing. I find it where sometimes how I feel people's cultures come through on this site and then other times I really would have no idea where they were from (Unless they use slang or terminology from their area).

 

I thought I explained it. I have such strong opinions only in discussions. In reality most of my opinions are not firm at all - due to lack of knowledge. But when I discuss I take on a firm stand to get out the best arguments of the participating people. To learn something.
And why is it hilarious to have different opinions on the same subject when they are based on different point of views?
I did not change my mind. I still have the same opinions.

Well, if you state I wrote something you should be able to back it up. It´s not on me to prove you wrong.

Definitly.

:good

And, I´m off to bad now. It´s nearly four in the morning and I think I´m getting tired.

 

Wow! Not sure why you have replaced Ricky Hatton as target #1, but I always enjoy your posts even when I don't agree with the point that is made (as astonishing as that may be!)...I have not detected any smugness, but whatever to each their own! But then again there are very few posters who rub me the wrong way...maybe some people take this stuff way to personal! Peace

 

It bothered me not to include Liston in that list.

 

stop arguing and admit he just outsucked you this time

 

Louis' sole chance of the names mentioned there is Wlad , and it is only a puncher's chance , which , BTW , Wlad has more of it too.

 

Weak and disappointing list.

 

I would have been glad to let the previous one stay but Bart / Rumsfeld / Boxing Girl just hacked my previous one.

 

It fits P4P lists , not H2H lists.
SHW list is based on H2H.

 

I don't rate Foreman in top 10. He was great fighter and brutal puncher. But I don't feel comfortable placing him that high.

+

Annihilation of very good Ken Norton

Two time destruction of Joe Frazier. But I am aware that it was past prime Frazier.

Incredible comeback and winning belt at 45 KOing very good Mike Moorer (Foreman was outboxed though)

Should have won with Briggs

-

Lost his biggest fight against Ali

Lost to Jimmy Young

Outboxed by young Holyfield

Shady way he was granted to fight Moorer for IBF belt in 1994

Should have lost to Schulz

I'm curious of opinions of those who rate Big Georg inside top 10, maybe they will convince me that Foreman should be there.

 

All very interesting points - I like it when someone throws a curveball (especially one which will get a lot of stick) - but yeah all good points really - with Foreman (for me anyway) yeah they are a lot of things that could be picked on and make you think 'hold on a minute is this guy really top 10?' but then when I watch him in his actual fights - even a losing fight like the Ali match - he still is just totally awe inspiring and completely scary to watch - and always leaves me thinking how could ANYONE take that kind of massive punching and survive?? He was just so hugely strong that that alone would overide a lot of other things that I might have reservations about with him - but yeah do take on board what you're saying completely - for instance I watched the Jimmy Young fight the other day and I came away thinking actually Young didn't win that one by running - he actually was right in range the whole time pretty much but just chose his moments to punch carefully which left me thinking that say a Jack Johnson for instance would've really shown Foeman up and would've been able to pull it off without having to really run for 10 rounds or anything.