What is ur HW top 10?

I see you're all in a tiffy. Your post just seems way to immature and petty to even respond to so I'll just leave it as agree to disagree. You can no no no and childishly nit-pick every detail, even though I have been very thorough in my reasoning. But I know I'm not alone as I've been in recent replies with people that agree with my assessment.

I'll just say from now on I'm going to refrain from the bracketing of quotes when discussing things. I feel it's post to just read the entire post, get the gist and general premise and then respond to the entire thing. This way the responses don't get bracketed and the posts don't seem to lose focus. Nobody has to follow suite... it's just a way I think to get a better understanding and not lead to confusion.

As for the only thing worth responding to... as for Liston's resume. I edited Valdes before you post. I admit Summerlin should be mentioned as a worthy omission to his resume. The early competition steps up counts for a little, but not too much. It's almost like looking at Foreman's 80 wins record. A lot of that as padded... similar Liston doesn't have half as many wins but I don't take that away from him. Lastly, I don't take away the fact that he lost to Marshall, nor does revenge of that loss give him extra credit. Westphal was just another name... I was trying to be non-bias. He probably doesn't even deserve a mention. No, Henry Clarke doesn't a mention. I guess I could have done it in a great, good, and decent level. Liston wins that decent level entry. Foreman wins in the great/good category.

*Edit*

For as stupid as Foreman fight in Zaire. For Liston to have greater ring smarts is laughable to me. He couldn't even figure out not to just follow Ali around rather than try cutting the ring off. His offense and versatility allows him to look more adaptable, but not smarter. Foreman does more with little... this is why he clearly has the higher ring IQ. Especially in his comeback. Where he employed a great strategy against Moorer. Conventional thinking is Moorer is southpaw, younger, and will just out-box Foreman. But Foreman got him comfortable enough to stand in front of him. It was a brilliant. Jim Lampley described Foreman as "having advanced ring IQ." How many times do you hear people talking about Liston's smarts or ring IQ?

 

Liston beat the HW Olympic Gold Medalist. He did it with less than 10 amatuer bouts!!

 

Why not? Clark was rated # 7 in the world by Ring Magazine. This is a good victory for an Old Liston

 

These "lists" are always question-begging.

 

He was rated 5th by the WBA but 9th by Ring Magazine.


http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...6,939219&dq=henry+clark+9th+ring+liston&hl=en

Still a dominant win over a big young ranked contender, that should not be written off..the way Pete suggests.

 

W. Klitschko
V. Klitschko
Haye
Adamek
... not much to talk about after this

 

Foreman was a million times better than Liston btw. Liston is an all-time great but just barely IMO. Foreman is a top 5 HW!

Foreman was bigger and stronger, he punched harder, could take a punch better, and his jab was just as good.

 

It's not that simple is it. I mean Liston can have generalship but can't even cut the ring off. Ring IQ obviously matters. But you think Liston is even better at that. And I gave them each their best punch for comparison sake. YET YOU still think Liston's uppercut is better than Foreman's. You also think Liston has more power but Foreman has twice as many fights and fought well into his 40's and still has a higher slugging percentage. My analysis is bias and busy because of sub-categories. Obviously Foreman's aggression isn't a relevant category. Well Itrymariti says I hit the nail on the head. So obviously my bias or analysis can't be too bad... you just can't either concede a few points or admit that your over-estimation of Liston facing more varying styles is hardly enough to have Liston #3 and Foreman way back. I mean I'm the bias one... yet you've had Liston as far as #3 and Foreman out of your top 10. Hysterical.

 

I rate on accomplishments and H2H

1. Valuev
2. Haye
3. Ibeabuchi
4. Tua
5. Ruddock-Was shot when he lost to Lewis and Tyson.
6. Sanders
7. Roy Jones Jr
8. Toney
9. Vitali K.
10. McCall

 

I also added Westphal for Liston. I don't even think he was ranked. Neverthless, Liston's post Ali career slipped my mind as he was black-listed and it all really doesn't seem as relevant in its way. But he should get the credit for any ranked wins. Henry Clark never really panned into much though. His big wins are Martin and Ramos while winning the California title.

Peralta was an Argentinian HW Champion. An actual cutie that Foreman didn't fight enough of. He was a savvy veteran, and they were fighting for the vacant NABF. He was a small HW moving up in weight. He did draw with Bonavena. I'm pretty sure I asked that you could add any omissions if you liked. If Peralta is so undeserving then we can add Clark. It really doesn't change much.

I also forgot the Cooney name for Foreman's resume. So it works both ways.