What is ur HW top 10?

#10 at highest.

 

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Nicolaj Valuev
4. Larry Holmes
5. Lennox Lewis
6. David Haye
7. George Foreman
8. John Ruiz
9. Evander Holyfield
10. Audley Harrison

 

For me, longevity counts when you're a perennial champion rather than a perennial contender. I don't give Bennie Briscoe much credit for trying and failing lots of times.

I think Tyson gets over-rated H2H mainly through mystique, and he's been exposed and then forgiven/excused probably more times than any other fighter. Statements about " '88 Tyson " **** me off no end. Outclassed by Douglas, outclassed by Holyfield. Only made two defences of the lineal title, and arguably only beat one elite Heavyweight in his entire career.

I know you can make anybody's record look bad, but I think there's something more fundamental with Tyson.

 

And what other sport did Wills excel in? From what film to you ascertain his reflexes and coordination?

4 time qualifier for the US Junior National Championships in the long jump, twice in the 400 meters, scholarship-ed to a D1 University. I have lined up with Olympic champions and NFL players and not been embarrassed, even beat a couple. You want my marks and times?

Ponderous, slow, strong... terms used to describe Wills, also. Again, Willard possessed great strength and great stamina, two attributes of athletic success. I agree Wills was the better fighter, never said he wasn't. I am not sure he was the far superior athlete. I think in lieu of great film evidence you are allowing your imagination and greater suppositions regarding athletics to run wild.

 

I have him at 9, used to have him at 10. I'm sure at one point he wasn't on my top 10 list.

 

Tokyo Douglas beats any version of a "peak/prime" Tyson more times than not. He wiped the floor with Tyson and won virtually every round.

 

Sensible. Though I still hold your comment about him "overwhelming" Louis against you a little...

 

I think Tyson is under-rated at this point in history. His rise to the championship, the level of destruction over quality opponents is better than Dempsey and Liston, somewhat analogous to Louis. He longevity at the top is better also than Frazier. I thought more people would bristle at me putting him number 5.

 

I dont rate the pre 1930's guys at all. They're visibilly outdated and i dont think they stand a chance against any of the other top HW's listed.

My criteria is not really a set thing. My opinion on the matter is just my opinion, i dont study it indepth i just watch fights. All of the top guys have been dominant and have great resumes. I'd say i place alot of value on H2H and performances against other elite fighters(win or lose), and the versatility/flexibility/stylistic range of their own style. So basically my top 10 list is pretty much the order in who i think would win the most fights against the other guys on the list and also top contenders they did face

Lewis/Marciano/Holmes are all on par i think. Same with Foreman/Tyson/Frazier.

 

I should re-examine that.

And you're right, we should move the focus to other divisions. The heavies are getting played out here.

 

It's an interesting dynamic. One man's going to bomb the other one out, or get bombed out because Tyson won't let Louis out-box him. I just don't like the style matchup. And admittedly, I'm not as high on Louis as most are H2H wise.

 

Ah, well that figures that. Your criteria is also mainly H2H so I'm fine with that if that's true.

I respect that then. Some people around here think Dempsey is basically better than Marciano in the H2H world, though.