What is Zab Judah's problem?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by G_RapPBF, Feb 2, 2008.


  1. G_RapPBF

    G_RapPBF Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,985
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    I mean MAIN problem that you think if it was fixed he'd be a top 10 p4p fighter today? Because in all honestly watch the first 4 rounds of all his fights, he is a demon, speed, timing, reflexes, I mean he throws roundhouse punches so much ferocity and speed, then all of a sudden his eyes just glaze over, like he totally zones out of the fight. He even starts to look scared, or discouraged, like if someone takes his initial barrage he doesnt wanna fight anymore.

    You can see it in the Tszyu, Mayweather and Cotto fights. He comes out vicious looking for blood, landing staggering blows in all 3 fights, then once the fighter weathers his storm, its like he just gives up.

    Its disheartening, not because I like the guy, I mean if their is one thing the black community needs less of its guys like Zab Judah, starting fights in clubs, beating up guys over dice games, getting hits put out on him on the streets. Thats why I can tell the difference between a guy like Floyd and a guy like Judah, anybody who grows up in those surroundings can see that Floyd does it to sell tickets, and even them its just a bubble gum hip hop persona and the opposite is Zab who would probably stab you over a pair of $40 dollars sneakers if he wasnt a boxer.

    So what is Zabs main problem? Intelligence? Heart? Discipline? I think its his trainers, I seriously think that if he had a decent trainer like a Mayweather for example, he'd be tops in the sport. I also think he should move back down a weight class, because given the level of talent in super lightweight now, I think he could seriously clean house on talent alone. However I could see him getting beat by Hatton, because as with Tszyu and Baldomir he simply loses it in a fight, and as Hatton proved by eating everything mayweather had for 10 rounds he doesnt stop, and for someone like Judah he doesnt have the discipline to hold off that storm mentally.
     
  2. PATSYS

    PATSYS Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,481
    18
    Aug 12, 2004
    Nothing wrong with Judah, he is a good fighter but it is just that there are many who are better than him. His stamina and chin are not great but that does not necessarily mean it is a problem.
     
  3. G_RapPBF

    G_RapPBF Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,985
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    Was Baldomir better then Zab? Hell no. Was OLD Tszyu better then Zab? No.

    So it cant just be that these guys were better then him, mentally he isnt all there. Just watch the beginning of the Mayweather/Cotto fights, its a different guy from the one who gets beat around over the next 8/6 rounds by both fighters.
     
  4. kg0208

    kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    16,031
    6
    Aug 8, 2005
    His mental makeup is part of his ability as a boxer. And yes, KT was better than Judah. And he wasn't that old when he beat him.
     
  5. PATSYS

    PATSYS Boxing Junkie Full Member

    10,481
    18
    Aug 12, 2004
    Did I say Baldo was better than him?

    And yes Tszyu was better than him. And so is Cotto and FMJ.
     
  6. G_RapPBF

    G_RapPBF Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,985
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    I disagree. Zab was controlling the pace of the fight against Tszyu, in the first round he landed several flush shots against Tszyu. What Tszyu landed at the end of the 2nd was a lucky punch. But again, it was Zab being careless.
     
  7. G_RapPBF

    G_RapPBF Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,985
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    No you said "many are better then him". Out of the 5 fighters he lost to I see only 2, Cotto and Mayweather, as being better then him.
     
  8. kg0208

    kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    16,031
    6
    Aug 8, 2005
    Judah is a one trick pony. He uses his speed to win, and if you are able to adapt, and deal with it, you can gain the upperhand.

    KT was winning that round, he was known for his incredible timing and had simply figured Judah out and adapted. It was not a lucky punch by any stretch of the imagination. KT has always troubled speedy boxers. You are taking credit from him where it is due.

    Even going by your own analysis, if it were correct, stating that Judah couldn't be careful for 2 rounds in a championship fight STILL takes away from his ability as a fighter. This isn't the case however, and KT was just a better fighter, greater in every sense of the word. He accomplished more and beat better fighters.
     
  9. G_RapPBF

    G_RapPBF Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,985
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    Disagree. Judah, has speed, probably the fastest hands in boxing, and a significant amount of power to go with it, also decent reflexes. More then enough attributes to make him a top level fighter. As i said, the ability is there. But watch a Floyd fight, and you'll see that one fighter adapts and thinks on his feet, and the other lacks alot of discipline.

    The round was ho-hum. Zab moving and trying to counter, landing a few jabs, and Tzsyu hunting. The kind of punch he landed is what I call a lucky shot. It wasnt like it was building to that moment, the round was over and Zab got caught going on the inside and was hit by a straight right. Zab got up to fast, should have used the 8 count and would have probably have been fine to go. Doesnt mean I dont believe Tzsyu who was the more experienced and well disciplined fighter wouldnt have won the match, I just believe Zab was far more skilled.

    What im asking is, since we know that most of his faults are in his mentality, would a decent trainer, someone along the lines of a Mayweather who teaches defensive strategy tactics better be a better fit for someone like Zab who has alot of talent?
     
  10. MancMexican

    MancMexican Blood & Guts Forever Full Member

    5,152
    0
    Apr 23, 2006
    I agree with what you say about Judah but one of the things i have noticed that really doesnt help him is how TERRIBLE yoel judah is as a trainer. His advice to Zab is 'Zab, you gotta let your hands go' or 'hit him, bang-bang-bang-boom'.

    Every man and his dog could see that virtually everytime zab threw a left uppercut he not only hit Cotto but stunned him. If zab couldnt see it and utilise it more, yoel should have.

    His advice in the floyd fight was 'he doesnt want to fight' and all that let your hands go bull****.

    Judah is mentally weak. He doesnt want to get ko'd and humiliated like he did against zoo, that is why he folds under the slightest pressure. that fight killed his confidence.
     
  11. kg0208

    kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    16,031
    6
    Aug 8, 2005
    Zab isn't half as skilled as Kostya Tszyu (exaggeration). Fighters with one punch KO power don't have to "build" to a KO. He has stopped fighters in a similar fashion before, and with that precedent set, it removes "lucky" from the equation. Add in the precedent that he typically beat fighters in the mold of Judah, it certainly removes any doubt that it was just the inevitable outcome of the fight.

    Zab had one advantage in that fight, and that was speed. All else went to KT. He had better power, timing, and textbook boxing skills. Something tells me you don't know a ton about KT, who was a stupendous amateur fighter and highly highly skilled.

    What you see on tape in those rounds is Judah's great physical assets. There are many athletes in many sports who are the best athlete, but no where near the best player at their sport. Judah as a fighter is missing half the equation, and while he may be more physically gifted than most, he is mentally deficient enough to diminish him as a fighter.
     
  12. G_RapPBF

    G_RapPBF Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,985
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    Yep thats exactly what I think. If Zab had a better trainer we'd see a totally different fighter. Its probably too late now, but if he had someone else managing him through his younger days, molding a more disciplined, better counterpunching oriented fighter, he'd be alot more dangerous.

    Also your comment about the Tszyu fight breaking his confidence could have alot to do with it aswell.
     
  13. walk with me

    walk with me Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    21,066
    47
    Nov 17, 2007
    i agreee i think its his trainers fault..

    even tho his trainer is his father... sometimes its hard to listen to someone who is so close to you...
     
  14. G_RapPBF

    G_RapPBF Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,985
    0
    Nov 22, 2007
    I agree with you. By skilled I meant athleticism and natural talent, but skilled wasnt the right word for that. For instance Eric Snow is probably more athletic then Steve Nash but Nash is more skilled. I totally understand what you are saying, that Tszyu probably would have won the fight anyway, but with Zabs ability he shouldnt be losing to the likes of Baldomir.

    However the the crux of the problem, dont you think a better trainer someone with his gifts would be a better fighter?
     
  15. kg0208

    kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    16,031
    6
    Aug 8, 2005
    Judah could have benefited from someone like the old school trainers who trained the mental game as much as the other parts. He had the physical gifts. That much is sure.

    He is like Marbury, who would have benfited from having stayed in Minnesota with Garnett and growing with him. However, I fear that Judah (like Marbury) may ALSO be someone who shuns advice because he thinks he knows better.