What justification is there to NOT have Mijares in the top 3 P4P right now?

The fact that Calzaghe had also beaten Eubank though, and has 20 something defences behind him gives him more credibility though as well. For Mijares, beating Montiel wouldn't put him above Cotto, unless it is really convincing, and even then it would be a stretch. Shane Mosley even at his age now, is a better fighter than Montiel or Donaire. Guys like Cotto have performed consistently against this type of opposition also, where as Mijares is only just starting to hit his stride. I would rate Navarro as an Urkal type opponent, tough, solid contender... Not really worth mentioning though. Munoz as maybe a Quintana level guy, although personally i think Quintana has more ability. Cotto was certainly FAR more dominant. Mijares will need to beat both well to move up the rankings. He needs to start throwing more punches for one. Against Munoz there were many times where he was just too tentative. Against the better guys, that sort of inactivity could cost him, as the judges have already appeared to go with his opponents who are almost always throwing more punches.

 

Was this directed at my Calzaghe analogy? I actually do think the career trajectory parallels, at least in the last couple of years, are striking.

Have you seen my Mijares-Munoz video?

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Just an obscene amount of effortless slipping and clean punching against a fellow world champion (and previously ranked by boxrec and a slight majority of fans as the #1 in the division), even allowing for having been selectively edited. If anything, he's earned an exponentially greater degree of hype in his last two wins...especially as their impact has been softened by black marks on the record books, which need to be counterbalanced by patient and persistent reiteration of the significance and impressiveness - and dominant nature - of those wins.

 

No, nothing at you, Mijares can likely become a greater fighter than Calzaghe in the end if these performances stay like they are.

But the thread starter and recent trend. The goal is completed, he's regarded, but it was more fun when nobody cared and we had to preach the word.

By the way, good video, they say he gets hit too much, not a mark on his face though. Could have picked a better Pantera track also, I'd have gone for 'By demons be driven'.

 

Yeah...I wasn't really jumping into the p4p discussion. As has been stated here before, I abstain from the p4p nonsense altogether (no disrespect to those of you who do attempt to find clarity through the haze).

I was just responding to the notion that Arce is viewed as one of Mijares' best wins, when it is in fact barely top 5. I was actually agreeing with you about some folks overrating Arce, while at the same time pointing out that while the win on paper over someone of that level isn't necessarily eyebrow-raising, the manner of that particular mauling ought to be taken into consideration as well. Few twelve round beatings like that have been sustained at a championship level in recent memory.

I have no problem with you rating Cotto highly, in fact if I were to participate in the p4p format as it currently stands (with a higher emphasis on accomplishment than h2h p4p talent), Cotto near the top would be pretty hard to deny.

Also, it sounds like you may have a bit of an expecting-a-tiger-to-change-its-stripes mentality with Mijares. He is improving from fight to fight, but his overall style isn't changing. It's relatively crowd-pleasing, especially compared to many other top talented boxers, but he isn't ever going to fight like an Arce...or a Cotto...or any of the types who rack up highlight-reel moments of excitement (though personally I've watched that video in my previous post about a dozen times and still get a dizzying adrenaline rush). He throws as many punches as he's comfortable with. He is a responsive fighter, and will tailor his performance to the weaknesses of his opponent...which means luring them into danger at times and letting them waste energy at others. You need to accomodate styles in grading a fighter, and not punish the ones that are less eye-catching.

 

Too easy, agree with everything here.

 

I think something should be universal, Ivan Calderon lacks resume and H2H ability at this calibre P4P, should be taken out of all top 15 lists.

 

I think Navarro is easily Quintana level, or better, probably better to be honest, you have to realise that he was robbed twice and has been thrown in with the wolves, he has good skill, just as good as Quintana and has proven more durable, never being stopped and always competitive with the top guys, in 2 cases, robbed.

Just because they are smaller, from underlooked divisions, doesn't mean they need to be unjustly ranked lower than B level fighters like Quintana. Margarito is even worse than Quintana, expect a Cotto one sided massacre.

 

Yes! Had crossed my mind. This was chosen specifically for the last lyric in the video (which was supposed to have opened my show this week, which unfortunately didn't pan out) - I was going to then explain in my opening monologue that "Godsize" was 5'6", 115 lbs, before launching into a fire-and-brimstone sermon about Tucker and Padilla. :yep

I even had a graphic of Cristian "born again, with snake's eyes".

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Ah, right, the lyrics, you see, that's how much I dislike the general composition of that one, it just irritates me and I'm a pretty big Pantera fan.

You know, I pretty much dislike the entire "far beyond driven' album, save for Throes of Rejection and Good friends and a bottle of pills.

Trendkill and Vulgar do it for me, the best of them.

 

Quintana schooled Julio though, and beat Williams, which are better accomplishments IMO then anything Navarro has done. That said, i haven't seen the robbery fights of Navarro, so i can't really comment. I think Marg is a slightly better version of Andrade. Beating him comprehensively will be very impressive. If Cotto stops him, it will certainly be an excellent win. Overall, i think i am probably biased for Cotto as you are biased for Mijares... Somewhere in the middle is probably the truth IMO. I try to stay objective, but Cotto is my favourite fighter in boxing, and i know that comes into play in my posts. I probably did under rate Navarro in my other post though to be honest, the Urkal comparison was a bit off.

 

I haven't been biased of Mijares lately, that was all for fun, he's got a ways to go before being a legit top 3 or whatever. What I am saying though is you are overblowing Cotto's wins.

Quintana schooled Julio, a C+, if that.

Quintana schooled Williams, a B-, ridiculously overrated and I'm not calling that in hindsight, I picked Quintana at 5/1 and put a large bet on him without a second thought.

Margarito is not better than Andrade, please let's not go there. Andrade's cutting a rift through the Supermiddle rankings, about to derail the Bute train with surprising ease, Margarito cannot even handily deal with Clottey, a B level and Williams, a B- level with stylistic oddity.

Some fighters are bigger name, like Williams, but that means nothing, the guy is horribly 1 dimensional with no back up plan.

...........

Now, Navarro schooled Kawashima, a B-, got robbed. Got robbed in the other japanese fight and the Kirilov decision was debatable, Mijares was the only guy who really schooled him and the extent to where Navarro was busted up by the end, a fractured cheek bone, broken nose and extensive bruising, says something about what he took.

You have stated in the past that fights ought to be judged on how they are won also for the resume, well, it's not just the names on Mijares resume that gives him a top ranking now, but how he's dealt with everybody with such ease, he wasn't even fighting full throttle against Munoz.

 

Pavlik definitely does not deserve a spot over Mijares. Zertuche-Miranda and Taylor all with questionmarks by the end of the fights do not even begin to equate with dominations over Kawashima 2, Arce, Navarro and Munoz.