What made Ali the GOAT?

Sad that people just can't look at what he did and give him his due.

Some probably feel they have to tear him down a bit to make a better case for Louis as nr. 1, but for others there seem to be some adolscent belief that they by so doing sees past some media myth and is a little smarter than others.

Yes, Ali was and is hyped by the media, and yes he is the favourite among many that know little or nothing about boxing, but he also has some unrivalled accomplishments.

He beat 37 ranked opponents among them Liston, Patterson, Frazier and Foreman. He won the title three times and defended it a total of 19 times. This is what made him the greatest HW ever. Not really that complicated.

 

Bokaj, I give Ali his due...In fact I saw him live twice...First time in 1960,I believe at MSG beating Aussie Tony Madigan,in the Golden Gloves Finals...He was 175 then...The next time I saw Ali live was THE EVENT,MSG, 1971...What electricity that evening...But I have seen Ali Struggle with Doug Jones, Henry Cooper,[almost stopped],Ken Norton all three times, and I see his faults objectively, with no bias, for or against him....I know every fighter has faults,[RAY ROBINSON excluded,but in my MINDS EYE, I envision my hero Joe Louis as superior in his glorious prime, to Ali...When Louis was in his prime, 1935 to about 1940.he was a lean,198 lb. destructive killer...The greatest combination puncher ever in the heavyweight division ...Just look at the Prime Louis, destroying Max Baer in 1935. In one segment he throws Three left hooks,in a blurr on the chin of young Baer, that still boggles my mind...Once Louis hurt you ,it was over then...As I have posted before, Louis was a Coil Spring Unwinding, as he was described...Ali NEVER EVER met any one remotely in Louis's class as a puncher...I know people bring up George Foreman as superior to Louis as a puncher...Nonsense,Louis would have gotten inside of Foremans arcing punches with twice as fast accurate and deadly combinations..''Getting there Fustess with the mostess", as an old saying goes...One more thing that applies to Ali vs Louis...Louis once said "HE can run, but he can't HIDE", and that sums it up for me...Louis Ko's Ali,both at best form,,my opinion...

 

I have no problem with anyone having Louis as nr. 1 or favouring him over Ali h2h.

But it's just plain wrong to claim that it is unreasonable to have Ali as the GOAT at HW. He met the best HWs over a 20 year period; if he hadn't been given problems or lost to any of them we would be talking about him as the greatest ever period, not just at HW.

 

How would Ali do against a modern Superheavyweight like Wlad? :huh

 

Hey there Bokaj, sorry to state the obvious but for anyone who doesn't have Ali down as the GOAT at HW then it is unreasonable - surely?? - thats the reason they don't have him as the greatest right?? - and its especially unreasonable to those who have him a few places off it too I'm guessing

 

Ali is the No.1 ATG heavyweight champion.

Arguably even the greatest fighter of all time P4P.

It anoys the **** out of me if people from the hippie age automatically go into worshipping mode when Ali is on TV when they really don't know **** about boxing.

 

As I said, I don't have Louis as the GOAT, but I absolutely don't think it's unreasonable to think he is.

 

Bokaj,I look at this topic of G.O.A.T. froma different perspective than you and other adherents to Ali..True he fought top opponents in his career...He alkso eked out many close decicsions on the way...Skitting around the ring showboating, and when he was winded, using the famous,[or infamous] rope a dope techniche''. playing to his followers...But the Joe Louis i revered annihilated his opponents , almost all the times, not gloating over his victims, like Ali would do much too often...Sure Ali was brave, no doubt about it, but was not in the same league as Joe Louis ,as a gentleman, and more important as a force of nature...My opinion....Keep punching...

 

Louis had close calls as well (Farr, Godoy, Walcott etc) and was KO'd close to his prime, something that Ali never was. Yes, Louis was more of a gentleman against opponents, but Ali showed incredible audicity in the ring; bringing down two of the scariest monsters of all time in unparallelled fashion. It is really about what you prefer.

A guy with 25 title defences and 26 victories in 27 title fights of course has a great argument for GOAT. But so has someone with an almost as impressive record in title fights, who won the title three times, beat an unrivalled array of HW opponents (Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Patterson to name the top ones) and came back from a long lay-off to become top dog in a difficult division.

For me, it can't really be wrong to have either Louis or Ali as GOAT (even though it's more right to pick Ali).

 

As already mentioned, it is certainly reasonable to award Joe Louis as the #1 heavyweight of all time, by virtue of his incredibly long reign, number of title defenses and dominance against some of his best opponents.. On the contrary, I am an individual who tends to favor quality of opposition over mere quantity, and while a certainly like great statistics, they only tell part of the whole story, not all of it.... Ali's wins over Liston, Foreman, Frazier and Patterson eclipse Louis's best wins by far, and I don't even think its close. At least 3 of the said fighters were top 10-15 all time greats, and Ali was an underdog against most of them. Additionally, he was never truly stopped in his career, except in a corner retirement which by that point was moot to even mention. His second teir list against Young, Norton, Quarry, Shavers, Ellis, Terrell, etc. Might even give Louis's first tier a good run for its money...... Top it off with the claim of being a 3 time world champion in a career divided by 4 years of inactivity, and that basically seals the deal for me..

 

This content is protected

 

I rate Louis's opposition a lot higher than that.
I guess it's subjective.

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TaITzi64Sw[/ame]

 

I wouldn't.. Louis won the title from James Braddock - a career journeyman light heavyweight, who had a bit of luck and a good streak near the end of his career, plus was retired for two years before Joe beat him... Jack Sharkey was shot to pieces. Primo Carnera was one of the worst heavyweight champions of all time and who's career has been highly scrutinized as being fraudgilant in parts. Walcott, Baer and Schmeling are the only real scalps that stick out, and frankly I would not necessarily rank them LEAGUES above Quarry who is commonly regarded as the greatest contender of all time and established this label in the division's most competitive era.... Or Norton who was a brief world champion, defeated Ali and a decent list of oppoents along with being one of the best conditioned athletes of the century..... Or Patterson who was one of the youngest champs in history, a two time titlist and a great fighter in a careeer spanning 20 years... Jimmy Young doesn't fall far from that list either, and nor does Earnie Shavers who many credit as being the hardest puncher in history...

 

If Fighter Number One Annihilates just about everyone he meets in a long reign as champion,some contenders not top elite boxers.....Fighter Number two reigns over a top quality of contenders...Many of his victories are disputed at the time...Should Fighter Number one be penalized for being born too soon, his opponents for the most part not as talented as fighter Number two?...I contend that the Brown Bomber at his best, fighting thirty years later ,with his fast destructive punching, would have dominated Ali's opponents even more impressively, than the so called"greatest of all time", Ali...Sans rope a dope, I might add...One more thing...I am not at all sure that Max Schmeling at his peak ,[ the first Louis fight] would have been simple fodder to the Listons, Foreman, etc,Ali opponents...I also believe that a young motivated Max Baer, would have given a slower George Foreman, a helluva fight...Styles,count and Baer coukd HIT and took a great punch...Yes Louis dominates the 1970s too I earnestly believe...