What Makes Style?

Of course physical attributes or lack thereof; meaning if a guy is short and squat for his weight class, with a short reach to boot, it's gonna be pretty tough to turn him into a "boxer". But what else?

His trainer, his gym environment, the boxing 'culture' in which he's nurtured, eg: (the Philadelphia club fighter).

How 'bout his nationality/culture? Used to be for example that European fighters and other non-Americans were considered to be less 'schooled', less battle-polished, lacking the competition level that American fighters faced. This is probably much less true today; but along those same lines when we look at Latino fighters we see a trend, a boxing culture: tough, inside comers with guts and heart, not overly creative or colorful. I know this is less true today as well.

How 'bout individual personality? Fritzie Zivic was quoted as saying, "In my neighborhood you either fought or hid in your house. We went out." This could do much to explain Fritzie's style of brawling, elbowing, lacing, and generally muscling his opponents; to him, the ring was an extension of the streets he grew up on.

I'm sure every fighter is a combination of all these things. But it's kind of interesting to imagine what all goes into making a fighter's style.

Do you rate one of these factors far above all others? Can you imagine what one of your favorites may have had to become in the ring to be effective, without that special ability or gift?

 

I think it's mainly to do as you say with physical characteristics. For example, a tall fighter with a long reach would move likely want to utilize his physical stature by fighting on the outside.

 

Thanks Tommy, that's probably my number one as well.

Just wanna post that my computer monitor is going off and on, and I smell something burning, so if I don't post that will be why........hope there's something on this thread to interest and provoke.....

 

Physical attributes definitely dominate a fighter's overall style. Also personality or even cultural upbringing too. I mean, Ali could have been a brawler, but he's just too intelligent to mix it up when he can outbox people.

 

A persons physical attributes such as height and reach, his good given talents(speed, hand eye coordination, and reflexes) and a his individual Temperments as a person(Combatitve, Defensive, Cocky and things like that)

 

In some cases it can be due to cultural aspects, like upbringing sometimes with Latino bangerrs

 

I watched a thing on Ali last night, and while he was being interviewed right before the Folley fight, he said, "The name of the game is to hit and not be hit." Simple, but not so easy, unless you have his gifts. His range, his speed, which I always believed is a lot more about a quick mind than anything else.

Obviously there are alot of factors that determine a fighter's style. Probably too many to list, but to me these two (range and brains) are two of the biggest. Why would you want to stalk, take three to give one as the saying goes, if you don't have to? Ironic of course, that Ali came away from his career alot worse for the wear than many of his stalking opponents did.

Could be there's a term for how a fighter's personality is evidenced in his style. (Someone might help me with that), in negative as well as positive ways. Billy Conn for example, a scrappy boxer with alot of skills and even more balls, when you watch that 12th round in the first Louis fight, Billy had him hurt. There was that moment of opportunity when Joe was collapsed against the ropes, and Billy hesitated. You could see the uncertainty in his eyes. Could have been due to the Louis legend or the Louis power, but Billy couldn't even believe it himself. If he'd have gone in and tried to finish Joe immediately, who knows? But he didn't. A telling bit of humility in the cocky Irishman?

 

Along those same lines of how personality effects style, I saw the first Moorer Holyfield fight the other night and still can't believe Moorer did enough to take the title away. Teddy Atlas, in true form, after having scolded Michael round after round for not bringing enough, takes a seat on the stool after one late round and stretches out like he's out on a picnic. Beautiful. The same guy who I think it was Stonehands who said on another thread Charley Burley was to train but took a pass, because of Michael's, "bad attitude."

Not to underestimate the kind of heart it takes to be in it for all you got or all you can find at that level of boxing competition, but Moorer, at least on that night, only brought what was familarly accessible. Could be a fighter's willingness to go into unchartered territory, knowing that he may not come out the same way he went in, is the difference between the men and the boys.

 

This is a good question, cause on a related note I think that a fighters chin, or ability to take shots, also has to do with some of the points brought up in this thread. I know that many people will say that a guys chin just "is what it is", but their god-given attributes also come into play and even more-so than that their fighting mentality. Mental toughness can overcome a weak chin for a fighter imo. JMM doesn't have the greatest chin in the world, and surely 99% of the other fighters out there would have been ko'ed if they were in his shoes if it were not for his "never give up" mentality. Yes recoup-skills and stamina also play a role, but I think it has had more to do with his mentality, or mental toughness

 

1rst would have to be his body type of course,but i also believe a fighters (want) matters i know some fighters who could box but could bang better so they were swarmers or sluggers instead.when i fought i could box farely well but with poor sight perception and a gret body attack and very good power i always became a swarmer(mainly because i liked it better)

 

i think it has alot to do with mental attitudes.

pernell was a short and stubby guy...yet had a great jab and outside game(and could mix it up with good results)

sandy saddler blessed with big shoulders and skinny legs 5'9 had a good reach and pretty solid boxing skills. yet he would go clinch ,grapple and try to lift you off your feet.

deigo corrales was a immensly tall super-feather/lightwieght yet would sit on the mid range and throw hooks from both hands...even though he was trained and tuaght how to box,and had shown he could jab pretty well with his t-rex reach.

 

Montell Griffin is another fighter that fights different than his build suggests

Riddick Bowe wanted to fight on the inside instead of using his height and reach as an advantage.

Then you have fighters like Ali, and Roy Jones Jr., that take complete advantage of their physical gifts.

I guess it just boils down to their mindset.

 

Good post

 

Some great posts. This is an elusive subject. A fighter's "want", or a fighter's "mindset", stands out as the factor that renders all bets off. So, you got guys with the body type to "box", but choose to keep it on the inside because of a preferrence to mix it up, and then fighters without the typical physical attributes of a boxer, that thanks to superior handspeed or foot movement or general ringsmanship still manage to effectively box.

Myself, I'm tempted to follow the trend of this thread that's pointing towards a fighter's mentality as the dominant factor in determining style. To minimize it, now that I look at it, does seem ill-guided.

We could look at the two most famous Rockys, if we don't count Balboa for illustration. Marciano and Graziano, guys who shared a nationality and a name and you might even say a body type, if we adjust for weight class, but that couldn't have been more different in terms of temperment. Marciano was a thoughtful, unassuming, plodding type of personality, and Graziano was a spontaneous, heroic, heart-over-matter type, and I think their respective styles bear that out.

I came into this thread wanting to learn, as I always do learn here, and I'm already convinced that personality or choice play a bigger part in style than I had previously given thought.

If we look at other fighters, especially fighters with strong personalities; (and we should have no shortage of them), in what others can we see a direct manifestation of personality in style? Pep? Leonard? Duran? Who else?