What people don't realize about Sugar Ray Leonard's Greatness is...

Ray Leonard , Roy Jones Jr. , Chris Eubanks and Joe Calzaghe were all protected fighters who intentionally systematically avoided fighting d best .
In Leonard's and Jones' case they were protected by d timing of their fights (but not only by that at all) which is a more subtle matter but just as bad as avoiding period .
Ray Leonard fought : drained Kalule , drained Benitez , drained Hearns , drained Duran and a well past his prime and possibly drained Marvin Hagler . Though not a big middleweight , i read he was fighting at lightheavyweight as n amateur .
Leonard also chose d size of d gloves , ring and d duration of d fight 4 their fight and then he mostly ran . I guess he even picked d judges .
Quite a Pacquiao/Mayweather thing 2do .
Jones' case almost identical 2 Leonard's , except he had a longer career and did not make temporary fake retirements .

Mayweather & Pacquiao were not d 1st 2 drain opponents in catchweights or just fight smaller men .
Besides of Duran , none of d names i mentioned here so far belongs in d top 30 of all times and neither in d top 20 of d last 40 years .

 

Man shut the f4ck up with that bs. Drain Hearns? Drain Duran? Drain Benitez? That's got to be the stupiest post i have ever read.

 

I can't say that u r d stupidest poster i've ever seen because there r plenty like yourself here . Keep going .

 

Duran beat Leonard, Duran quit against Sugar, Sugar knocked Tommy out, and Leonard beat Hagler. #Reality

 

It's because of SRL.

Even Ali's hardcore fans don't hate Ali's rivals as much as SRL's fans hate his.

As far as they are concerned, his career started with the first SRL fight, and ended with the Hearns fight. While everything else is bull**** to them.

Sure, he quit against SRL, got sparked by Hearns, and looked rather bad during that time period. Atleast outside of the Halger fight. But atleast he was fighting and not ducking people.

SRL's comback is seriously overrated.

He fought a past it Hagler, a weight drained Lalonde, an old looking Hearns, and an old Duran.

Once he fought a live body in Norris, he got his ass kicked.

 

Good comedy is always welcome on ESB.:rofl

HOI,I know you know your **** and I know you know what's what when it comes to Ray.
I'm a huge Leonard fan as you know,but I also have Duran down as a genuine favourite.A bit like Barrera and Morales,it seems to be anathema to some people that you can actually be a big fan of both.
It's not Ray's fault the networks and wider public ignored Duran.Try tracking down all the biggest fights Cholo had at lightweight.

Afterglow,you're another poster who I've agreed with several times,and I wouldn't even try to dismiss your opinions,but we're miles apart here.
I have to say though,that I'm a big SRL fan and I've always believed that Duran's peak years were pre-welter and upwards.I have nothing but respect for the guy and you're generalising a bit too much there.
And I'm surprised you use Camacho.:-(It's like using Ali's performance against Berbick as some sort of yardstick.
All I ask is that you don't assume every fan of Ray despises Duran.
It's just not true.:good

 

I was really talking about SRL's hardcore fans that believe he is the GOAT basically.

I only mentioned Camacho because of the fact that Duran was still skilled and durable enough to compete with someone like him, yet the other guy got beat down him him.

SRL had a tendency to pick his spots, while someone like Duran didn't give two shits about age, or ring size, or any of that ****. He just wanted to throw down and give a mother****er an asswhoopin.

 

Yeah, I don't really rate his comebacking career all too much outside of the Hagler fight. Leonard built the majority of his legacy and resume up through 1982 and those are wins I don't take from him. Benitez was a true test and hurdle to overcome and Leonard was the first to beat him. Kalule was not dead at 154 in 1981 -- he was it's reigning lineal champ and unbeaten as well. Actually a fairly risky fight with The Showdown on the horizon (check Hearns fighting Pablo Baez the same night). Hearns, another unbeaten and absolute H2H Monster. Leonard was staring defeat in the face that night And had absolutely nobody to save him but himself. One of the better wins ever. It's not Ray's problem Hearns came in at 145. It wasnt a catchweight fight. Tommy was also favored and through 12 rounds, we found out why for the most part.

Well, that makes two of us. I just don't see the point in hating on great fighters I guess.

 

I agree with all of the stuff you said.

He was an ATG and rather brave guy before the retirement, but after that, it was night and day.

Everything had to be on his terms, and that was when he had to best chance to win.

 

I won't put up much of a fight in regards to post-1982. My only sticking point with SRL is that people recognize the fighter he was and what he accomplished from 1977-82 which was quite a lot in a short space of time. You clearly do. I don't think very many welters in history could've taken him - Hearns and Benitez failed - but Roberto Duran Did and that's what makes that win so impressive. If hypothetically, Leonard isn't great, then what does it do in regards to value of it? :-(

 

Biased much ? :roll:

 

Ray Leonard was one of the best ever, he shouldn`t have retired in his prime but he kind of made up for it by doing the unthinkable, beating Hagler.

Leonard fought in a truly special era so to argue against his greatness because he struggled while beating legends like Hearns & Hagler speaks volumes of just how great he was..... he ain`t no Sugar Ray Robinson but he carried the name with more greatness than anyone outside of Ray Robinson.

 

And as far as Marvin Hagler goes, it is a win I freely deposit into Leonard's resume. On one hand, Hagler was past prime and SRL dictated the ring size and gloves, what not. On the other, Hagler hadn't lost a fight in 11 years and those actual losses and draws he did accumulate were no less controversial than Leonard's win from what I can gather; that's in terms of result rather than scope. Also, SRL had all of one fight in the previous five years leading up to it (in which he was floored by Kevin Howard) and never before at 160... Virtually no one picked him to win. There's room for debate, give and take.

 

That is true for many hardcores, but most boxing fans in general don't seem to seperate any of Leonard's career, until he started losing.

And very few could have taken him at all. Which is totally correct. But the tards are annoying for acting as if his one loss at WW came at his own hands, not his opponants. That is ****in annoying.

 

Oh, this?! Agreed 100%.