What people don't realize about Sugar Ray Leonard's Greatness is...

Yes, that.

It's always been my biggest beef.

They cannot handle the idea that their hero got beat straight up in his prime. So they take the bull**** he says as truth, and act as if Ray would have easily beaten him had he not fought Duran's fight. Which is a lie.

It would be a tad more convincing had Leonard basically pitched a shutout against what was basically a ill prepared Duran in the rematch. But he didn't come close to it.

 

Maybe this has already been discussed , but did anyone mention that the second Duran fight was not as onesided as the armchair fan thinks and that Ray was probably only two rounds up on a man that didnt train?

Ray was and is always a favourite of mine and it was very difficult watching him get pummeled by Norris.

Didnt watch the 41 year old Sugar fight and will not ever look it up .

 

Yeah, in the post just above you. :deal

 

Thanks I see that now , was on about the third page when decided to post .

 

The fourth had the best, most sensible responses and posts. :good

 

It's also foolish because people act like Leonard fought so out-of-character in Montreal, and act like he normally fought in a fleet-footed manner like he did in the last two Duran fights, and against Hagler.

 

Great post.

I think that Marvin wanted to prove to Ray & himself that he was just as good a boxer as Ray and gave the first few rounds to Ray trying to prove that he could box with him in either stance , instead of trying to ko him early like he did with Tommy

 

You have to admit that getting ko'd by a former feather fisted FW is pretty bad , no matter the age. One of the best WW getting KO'D by a former feather fisted FW :---(

 

Yep, he was forced to retire though with the eye injury, wasn't a Mayweather type of "vacation" to run away from challenges. And his competition was the best of the best in the few years before he retired so it's not like he had much to prove, unlike Mayweather. Retiring when he did may have extended his career by allowing him to get surgery and for eye to heal appropiately so that he was able to face Hagler without that problem hindering him too much.

 

Thanks, and I agree he definitely showed Leonard too much respect. I've always felt that part of Marvin's ongoing bitterness with this fight is only partly due to what he feels was a bad decision.

The other part, imo, is him kicking himself all these years for not going southpaw earlier, and conceding the early rounds. He'll never admit it, but he knows it.

 

I've never really understood this. Leonard is slated for fighting Duran again only five months after the first fight, as Roberto ballooned up in weight and had to pull weight quickly.

But let me ask you: when exactly would Duran have been ready for a rematch? Be it 5, 10, 15 months on from their first fight, Duran would still be pushing 200 no matter what. He always let himself go between fights.

If Leonard had rematched him a year later, then the story would be exactly the same.
If it had been two years later, the excuse would have been that he waited for Duran to get old.

Basically, from this perspective, it's a no-win situation for Leonard, isn't it? Damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

 

Not sure if this point has been raised yet, but floyd came back off a two year lay off to fight the number 2 p4p fighter. Obviously there wasn't the issue with the weight with Leonard and Hagler. So if you rate SRL's win so highly surely you must do the same for Maywether?

 

The only thing I'll admit in relation to that is that it was a ridiculous idea for him to be fighting anyone of any decent level of ability at that time.
My God,Marquez and Hopkins have got some younger fans thinking that everyone should be able to perform at the top over the age of 33.atsch
If I remember correctly,he was stopped,and if you saw the fight,it was quite clear he couldn't get his punches off,which fitted in perfectly with the leg injury he sustained while lifting weights(for the first time in a training camp,incidentally)
I suppose it was a disgrace that Barrera lost to a glass jawed LW who will probably become a natural welter,and Ali lost to an average Trevor Berbick,whom prime Tyson destroyed and Shane Mosley lost to a natural light-fly and so on.
You just can't hold that fight up against the rest of his career.It's an aberration that most people hardly acknowledge.

 

Yeah Marv' is still bitter , but that is what makes him the great boxer he was. He could not beat Ray as Ray was the media darling (and a great boxer) They both knew that if Ray did not fight Marvin before he retired that Ray could win one way or the other, wether it be through the media or in the ring Ray was always going to win.

If Marvin beat Ray he would have been a former WW, who had been retired for a number of years and Ray's fans would have said that Ray would have won in his prime anyway. Floyd tried the same trick when he came out of '"retirement" to fight the no 2 p4p champ in JMM , but it did not work as well as with Ray (Marvin was bigger and better than JMM) , when some one says that he came out of retirement people have a vision of a old warrior getting chalenged by the much younger bull , but Hagler was older and more worn than Leonard.

It was a close fight and since Leonard was a former WW and had a few years away from the ring he should be concidered better , as Duran beating Ray and a good showing vs Hagler shows that he was the best out of the fab four.

All four are great and have some good to brillant bouts bettween them. :good:good:good

 

And just like Afterglow's right to say that Duran's win in the first fight should not be dismissed in any way,to dismiss any of Leonard's magnificent use of mindgames and gaining psychological edges wherever possible is a massive factor in his greatness.
Duran performed superbly in the first fight.All I'm saying is that as a fan of Ray,his performance in losing that night enhanced his legacy for me.
Just like some Leonard fans are far too dismissive of Duran and view the second fight slightly differently from how it actually happened,many Duran fans want to poo-poo everything Ray achieved.
It doesn't have to be like that.
And because I was only in my early teens,I was just glad that I was able to see Ray's later fights,and looked forward to any announcement of a fight,but now I'm older I realise that after Hagler,none of the rest should've happened and it's only up to 1982(Hagler aside) that really matters.