What rationale is there to rate Dempsey higher than Marciano?

...Rocky didn't look that good on live home tv or live pay-per-view broadcast tv either. It was a lot different watching him live and in action than it is to those who have only seen him after the fact and knowing the outcome of the fights. I saw all of those fights. When a friend of mine who really knew his boxing came with me to see Walcott/Marciano 1 he couldn't believe Marciano being the favorite and couldn't understand how he ever got that far. "He's awful...clumsy...misses punches by a foot" were some of the comments he made. Of course that last right hand didn't miss, but it came as a shock. And we were just watching....imagine how Walcott felt!!

 

I sometimes wonder if Rocky didn't miss intentionally at times. An elbow doesn't have the padding a glove does

 

..Rocco...you've said so much in so few words!!!:good

 

I like Rocky, but he did clobber peeps with an elbow or two at times. He also hit those same peeps with some very accurate, explosive, punches... the elbows were only intended to soften them up a bit.....

 

Dempsey wasn't exactly a clean fighter either though. All of the old-timers found ways to bend the rules. Before my grandpa died he used to say "If you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin!"

 

I disagree with you. Name me 1 guy that Dempsey knocked cold the way Marciano did to Walcott or Layne.

 

Dr. Z is going to have a very hard time answering that one, Bill

 

Oh, come on. Most of the greats were dirty fighters. I watched Tyson against Bruno last night. Tyson hit Bruno when Bruno was down and had been down quite a while. He hit Bruno after the bell. He hit Bruno on the break. If he didn't hit Bruno with his elbow it was only because he didn't think of it. And what about Dempsey? And Foreman? And the smaller fellows like Greb, Fullmer, and Saddler were not exactly choir boys either.

 

I never really said what went on was terrible for boxing. In fact, I think some of the actions of the older ATGs made boxing more popular than it would have been otherwise. I mean, Ezzard splitting Rocky's nose open with an elbow actually helped the Rock in longer term ratings. Whether intentional or not is anybody's guess, Ezzard was just trying to find a way to win... just like a lot of the older ATGs.

The "choir boys" of today wouldn't have done well in the older times primarily because of the fact more "dirty" fighting was allowed. They'd be stepping into the ring with an unexpected buzz saw of an opponent - one that is going to beat you no matter what needs to be done. Of course one needs to remember I'm only referring to the ATGs of times gone by.

 

So it really is DR.Z. under an alias? I'll be danged.

 

Z had to have gone somewhere..

 

Fred Fulton and Carl morris.

Even so Dempsey himself made the observation that Marciano iced more people with a single shot.

 

One shot KOs colds from Dempsey? I doubt it!

Regarding Dempsey's impression of Marciano, let's just say Dempsey understood the guy would've knocked his head off in the first round

 

I rate Dempsey above Marciano simply because I think he was BETTER.
Faster, harder to hit, more accurate hitter, better footwork, better balance.

I would also pick Dempsey to beat Marciano.

I think they are more or less level on quality of opposition, toughness, heart, punching power, overall achievement.
I just think Dempsey was better.

I regard Marciano as truly great though.

 

Marciano had better defense. Firpo is a good example regarding Dempsey.

Marciano had superior punching power, based on who pasted who with a single shot.

How was Dempsey harder to hit? I've never seen it.

Rocky fought the BEST black fighters of his era... can good old Demp say the same?

Comparisons between the two are nil! Rocky would have taken a shot or two from Demp, grinned, and proceeded to knock his head off.