What really happened at the second Liston vs. Ali fight?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Stiches Yarn, Feb 6, 2021.

  1. ShovelHook

    ShovelHook Boxing Addict Full Member

    Jul 22, 2019
    Scott took a dive against Wilder and Liston took a dive against Ali. Lots of fighters take dives, people rule it out even when it's clear though because they gave an affinity for the fighters or sport that blinds them to obvious corruption.
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2021
  2. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Jul 30, 2014
    The whole fight stunk. I doubt the KD was even real let alone the KO.
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  3. Pepsi Dioxide

    Pepsi Dioxide Member Full Member

    Oct 22, 2020
    The thing that always bothered me about the claims of this being a fix is that Liston gets back up and starts fighting Ali again after Walcott does his part with that confusing count. If youre going to take a dive why dont you wait until the ref has waived the fight off.

    From my perspective (granted years later and on film) it looks like Ali clips Liston with a shot on the temple he wasnt expecting, Liston goes down, gets back up and tries to fight only for Walcott to end the fight. Im not discounting that it could of been a fix, it just doesnt make sense that you pop up at what you think is before the 10 count and keep fighting if you are going to throw the fight in the 1st round.
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  4. darealperfect1

    darealperfect1 New Member Full Member

    Feb 2, 2021
    Liston was living the high life in Vegas man. he didn't wanna fight
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  5. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Jul 4, 2014
    Quitjob. The mob was taking all Liston's money, and he just wasn't going to be a cow for them anymore. It was his equivalent of Marciano retiring at 32 for similar reasons.
  6. Jackman65

    Jackman65 No longer booted! Full Member

    Aug 31, 2019
    I’ve heard all of the excuses and explanations over the years. It’s an obvious dive if there ever was a dive. Look at the recordings of Ali’s explanation. I think he said he was faster than film could capture or some kind of nonsense. It was a little arm punch thrown by Ali while he was moving backward. Nothing on it and it barely connected. If Ali was capable of KOing a huge guy with that kind of punch, why is it he never did it again? Grazing a huge guy with a small flick of a punch would be the deadliest weapon in boxing history if it worked. Sadly, it doesn’t because even big strong guys have to throw real punches to knock out other big heavyweights. It was barely a slap, much less impact than a normal jab yet it knocked a huge man out? Only Ali apologists and rubes buy this fairytale.

    A brute like Liston doesn’t go down from that kind of punch, even if it did connect. The phantom punch of all time and one of the most obvious dives in history.
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2021
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  7. iii

    iii Boxing Addict Full Member

    May 3, 2016
    The best excuse I heard was Liston who had Mob connections was told there was a hit on Clay as he was supporting the Black Panthers etc ...true or not but it'd explain Liston diving etc.
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  8. The Long Count

    The Long Count Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Oct 8, 2013
    I think Ali clipped him, Liston was stunned went down. Ali begins to run around causing chaos for the referee (Jersey Joe) he loses control of the situation. Liston takes situation to buy more time by rolling over after attempting to get up (looks terribly fake in doing so) gets up when Walcott makes it over to him. Then continues the fight.
    I think Walcott made bad call in ending fight on advice of time keeper. He lost control of the situation and Ali should not have been awarded the ko because his actions led to the delay in Walcott administering the count properly. Let them continue to fight.
    Having said that the air of a fix was heavily in the air before the bout even took place and many major venues didn’t even want to touch the fight. So it does lend credence that the fight wasn’t on the level.
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  9. Nopporn

    Nopporn Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Jan 4, 2007
    I never thought that the rematch would be very easy for Ali. Liston was hurt by that punch but nobody thought that it could end the fight. That made a lot people think that the fight was fixed.
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  10. djanders

    djanders Well-Known Member Full Member

    Feb 21, 2009
    I was at the fight, I still don't know if it was legit, or if Liston took a dive. The punch landed. I know that much. In general most boxers from that era don't dispute that it was a legitimate knockout. Obviously the conditions were screwed up. I'll take it as legit unless some kind of proof surfaces to prove it wasn't. That's not going to happen, so I'll credit Ali with the KO 1 over Liston. Stranger things have happened in boxing rings.
  11. rodney

    rodney Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Jun 16, 2006
    Listen was up and they resumed fighting. This is a clear indication that he was OK to continue. The ref stopped the fight at the request of the timekeeper and Nat Fleischer. They weren't qualified to stop the fight. Only the ref. The ref blew it.
  12. KernowWarrior

    KernowWarrior Bob Fitzsimmons much bigger brother. Full Member

    Jul 12, 2012
    Only one person truly what happened, and he died in December 1970 under as suspect circumstances as the above fight ending.
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  13. KidDynamite

    KidDynamite Boxing Addict Full Member

    Sep 16, 2012
    From what we can see on film, this is what happened

    Liston gets hit with a quick punch while lunging in for a jab and it seems to stop his momentum and he goes down because he was off balance a bit. Him rolling around on the canvas was just bad acting. Walcott the ref messes up the count ... Liston and Ali both don't seem to know if he's counted out and reengage each other.

    Guess Liston didn't know if his bad acting job got him out of there .... For whatever reason it may be, Liston didn't want to seriously fight that night and was looking for a way out. Whether it was threats from the NOI, mafia orders, fear of losing to Ali twice, injuries, personal problems, or just plan not in the mood to fight.
  14. GatherInformation101

    GatherInformation101 New Member Full Member

    Feb 12, 2021
    Is this a serious thread? We all know what happened in the second fight of Muhammad Ali vs The Ugly Bear Liston. Liston was dropped and hurt, the punch hit so hard that you can see the back of Liston's created a SHOCKWAVE. And here is my proof.

    Look at this, none of ya'll can't tell me this was fake, look at the back of Liston carefully when Ali threw that punch!

  15. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

    Jul 21, 2009
    Ali did what he had to do and Liston did likewise. Whether it was a dive or a legit KD they both did what they had to do. Sometimes a man's got to do what a man's got to do and they both did what they had to do. Relax! It is what it is.