What Really Happened in the Jack Johnson-Stanley Ketchel Fight?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by dempsey1234, Dec 20, 2016.


  1. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Thats true. Its entirely possible Johnson expected Ketchel to be more formidible than he was, able to sell the ruse on his own, but when Johnson knocked him down in the second quite easily he realised he better take it very easy with this little guy, was forced to literally carry him at times, and then after what was a very one sided contest had to sell the pictures by going down. Both are plausible and really hinge on whether you think the KD was legit. I dont, it looks fishy, looked fishy to most watching it live that day and such I believe the entire fight was a farce.
     
    mcvey likes this.
  2. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    On a related note, was it true about Ketchel being a dope fiend about this time? Has anyone written a decent book on Stanley? I know the usual stuff, read a bunch of articles, contemporary and modern, but he never has quite grabbed me like he has many of you.
     
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  3. Makingweight

    Makingweight Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Yes he smoked opium book that always gets decent reviews is The Killings of Stanley Ketchel google it and see if that is what you are looking for.
     
  4. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Good to see you posting again. You said it "the reader that had one iota of boxing knowledge would realize beforehand it was a mismatch." and "To Johnson it was a glorified spar in front of a paying audience,had he of taken Ketchel out in the first couple of minutes how do you think the live gate would of taken it?" They paid to see a fight, they got one one guy obviously carrying the other, for 11rds, I think they would have enjoyed it had he taken him earlier. Like you said it wasnt like anybody fan or scribe that thought Ketchel had a shot, except maybe a lucky punch and even then. IMO it was a boring fight til the 12th rd.
    And for 20 seconds of the 12th rds to wake everybody up why wait for 12? When it could've ended earlier. The kd and the ko last how many seconds? Why didnt Johnson do that in other fights? Did he ever score such a blazing ko before in any of his other title fights?
     
  5. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Did he fight anyone as small as Ketchel in any of his other title fights? Ketchel could make 155. Fighting a guy who could weigh 210 in great shape and was incredibly strong, thats a mismatch and can easily explain why Johnson scored such an emphatic one punch knockout when others could absorb his punches.
     
  6. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Taking a couple of days off for Christmas, will continue arguing Monday, Johnson was a safety first fighter so he was careful not to put himself in any danger, a JM was about right.
     
  7. Makingweight

    Makingweight Well-Known Member Full Member

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    JJ we all agree was a defensive master,safety first fighter,IMO as many of you he carried Ketchel and the footage seems to clearly back that up.For JJ it was like a cat playing with a mouse,doing what he wanted,when he wanted.He always fought in the style of initially leaning out of range,back foot,draw a lead,potshot,clinch and tie up the opponent all his career the SK fight no different just with less power offensively,up until the 10th.Risk adverse a slow wearing down process,not just physically but for the opponent mentally.Factor in a 160 lb man being not just out skilled,but totally frustrated bad enough for a full blown HW.

    Guys worth looking at the 10th rd again because at that point JJ starts to turn it up for me more spite in his punches,Ketchel's face is a mess not just around the cheek but looks like his nose.The bigger man leaning on him,heat of the day,energy sapping and no doubt some verbal's in his ear and seeing close up JJ smiling to the scribes as he always did.To me the public exhibition had run it's course,JJ had enough footage,glorified spar and time to close the show as he chose to do in the 12th,just my take on it.

    For a life that had restrictions on it because of the times he lived in,the one place he had control was in the ring and the chance to show that off was part of his ring persona and fighting style,just my 2 cents worth on JJ generally.