What sets guys like Hopkins and Toney apart from mere mortals...

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by DINAMITA, May 20, 2009.


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  1. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    The other day I was introducing my mate to the magic of the Hopkins and Toney career sets, we watched Hopkins v Echols II and Toney v Jirov. These fights were very different, both in the approaches of Hopkins and Toney, and in the way the fights transpired.

    Watching these fights for the first time in a while, it was clear what sets guys like Hopkins and Toney apart from the very good (Jirov) and the good (Echols) is accuracy.

    Round after round Jirov and Echols were fighting at a high tempo, with great determination and were throwing punches designed to hurt and/or decapitate their opponent.

    Yet round after round, their landing percentages were a mere 10-25%.


    Hopkins and Toney's landing percentages were 40-55% throughout!

    Toney's landing percentage for an entire 12 round fight with a decorated amateur and unbeaten professional cruiserweight world champion was 47%! Hopkins was landing over 50% of punches in some rounds against Echols.


    I'm not a big fan of statistics in boxing, I don't really trust them nor often cite them in posts, but these stats are pretty interesting. They do reflect the style of each man, and the way they fought in their pomp (OK, Toney's peak was probably nearer 1991, but his brief late career renaissance around '03 was really like a second peak).

    Their different but equally brilliant skills at avoiding taking punches cleanly (though Hop does take a huge shot right on the button from Echols in round 8 - of course he doesn't blink an eye) and the devastatingly accurate output of either man is pretty special.



    What other world title fights have you seen that have stretched into the later rounds where one fighter's punch landing percentage has exceeded 50%?

    Which fighters have been as good as or better than Hopkins and Toney in terms of accuracy?
     
    DINAMITA, May 20, 2009
    DINAMITA, May 20, 2009
    #1
  2. knockoutpower

    knockoutpower Lights Out "No Doubt" Full Member

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    roy jones landed near enough all punches he threw.
     
    knockoutpower, May 20, 2009
    knockoutpower, May 20, 2009
    #2
  3. FrochPascal

    FrochPascal Boxing Addict Full Member

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    What sets them apart is defense..............................................

    If they didnt have good (to great) defenses they would not have lasted this long. Example is the jirov fight with toney. Jirov threw so many punches yet as you say a small percentage landed----and those that landed toney didnt really catch flush.
     
    FrochPascal, May 20, 2009
    FrochPascal, May 20, 2009
    #3
  4. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    True. Roy's speed meant hardly anyone could avoid his punches. Hopkins and Toney didn't have that speed.
     
    DINAMITA, May 20, 2009
    DINAMITA, May 20, 2009
    #4
  5. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    Good point, that is how they limited their opponents' landing percentages. But defence can't explain their own landing percentages. 40-55% over 10-12 rounds is stunning accuracy eh?
     
    DINAMITA, May 20, 2009
    DINAMITA, May 20, 2009
    #5
  6. knockoutpower

    knockoutpower Lights Out "No Doubt" Full Member

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    james is so slick. he rolls the punches of. so there not flush landings. just mere catches on his arms. and hopkins always makes the fighters follow him,walks backwards. so he has a slight advantage walking backwards seeing the punches come at him
     
    knockoutpower, May 20, 2009
    knockoutpower, May 20, 2009
    #6
  7. FrochPascal

    FrochPascal Boxing Addict Full Member

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    but landing percentage for example vs fighters like jirov doesnt say a great great deal. I seem to remember him basically coming straight forward- i dont think he was that hard to hit.
     
    FrochPascal, May 20, 2009
    FrochPascal, May 20, 2009
    #7
  8. Combinaçion

    Combinaçion Active Member Full Member

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    :thumbsup



    Recent years, top of my head:

    Marquez vs. Diaz
    Mayweather vs. Gatti
    Tito vs. Ricardo "Hit Me, Please" Mayorga
    De La Hoya vs. Mayorga



    Mayweather, Marquez, Oscar for quite a long time (before he was no longer able to fight as a welterweight)

    Then going back.... Chavez, Pernell & Finito Lopez


    Even though he never fought the best (other than Barrera), Naseem Hamed was quite accurate.... so good to watch with those reflexes of his, combined with his power (he was a respectable, flashy knockout artist!).
     
    Combinaçion, May 20, 2009
    Combinaçion, May 20, 2009
    #8
  9. Combinaçion

    Combinaçion Active Member Full Member

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    iirc & from what I did get to see of him, Meldrick Taylor too!
     
    Combinaçion, May 20, 2009
    Combinaçion, May 20, 2009
    #9
  10. KayEpps

    KayEpps Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I would have called out Defense myself. Both are throw-back style fighters and their defense is crazy. That's what sets them apart from everyone else - mainly.
     
    KayEpps, May 20, 2009
    KayEpps, May 20, 2009
    #10
  11. Combinaçion

    Combinaçion Active Member Full Member

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    Intelligence, Good Defence, Picking Their Shots Wisely (hence the accuracy).


    Toney was one of the most technically gifted of his generation, most seem to forget.
     
    Combinaçion, May 20, 2009
    Combinaçion, May 20, 2009
    #11
  12. BlueApollo

    BlueApollo Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Two all-time great chins, which is easy to forget since Hopkins almost never gets hit anymore. Toney was shaking off flush bombs from Sam Peter.

    I love this sequence. Talk about putting your hand in the hornet's nest.

    This content is protected
     
    BlueApollo, May 20, 2009
    BlueApollo, May 20, 2009
    #12
  13. Combinaçion

    Combinaçion Active Member Full Member

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    The Moral Victory belonged to James Toney
    & to Burger King.:D
     
    Combinaçion, May 20, 2009
    Combinaçion, May 20, 2009
    #13
  14. renyo

    renyo Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think all of those things helped alot. But i think the biggest part is their ability to stay cool under pressure.And think clearly

    They don't get frustrated discouraged or deseperate even the few times when they needed to so they could have got the w.

    They really know and see what is going on in the ring at all times it lets them conquer fighters that may have better physical gifts.
     
    renyo, May 20, 2009
    renyo, May 20, 2009
    #14
  15. Saltzy

    Saltzy Bam-O Full Member

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    I would say their ring intelligence was a major factor. Both were masters at strategy breaking their opponent down and not getting him themselves.
     
    Saltzy, May 20, 2009
    Saltzy, May 20, 2009
    #15
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