What should Jim Mc have done during the DeGale v Groves fight?

Good analyses

 

I agree with this.

He allowed Groves to lead all the time, who was light enough on his feet to evade DeGale's punches regularly.

I'm not sure that much blame can be put on McDonnell, sure he didn't cover himself in glory but other than asking DeGale to do things that he hasn't shown us so far.....

 

Is it over simplifying it to say that by Groves simply boxing on the back foot just threw Degale mentally? He was doing something that the Degale camp had completely written off and as such had not prepared for. As someone said earlier, because he was being the big boy (not Phill Fury) in the buildup he had to chase Groves but because of the needle just kind of lost his head.

Another fight, another fighter Degale would have been a little cuter in getting to his opponent.

 

I think Groves..well Booth come up with a smart enough plan and Groves followed it well. DeGale if he had a better trainer who was actually focused on doing his job he may of got DeGale to adapt or even be able to come forward better. All if's and but's really but this fight and how it reflects Groves as a fighter is a strange one because many of us feel DeGale is technically flawed and didn't fight a good fight yet this was Groves finest display winning a tight points decision.

Do we account major improvements in Groves?, Degale being poorer then thought? Bit of Both?.

For me i still see Groves defense being shaky and even in that fight he was shaken at one point. I feel Groves really should revert to boxing in centre ring like he did in second round against Smith. Leading off and basically using his offence as defence.

If Groves moves around ropes against Anderson he's putting himself in danger, Anderson was smart in first fight people overlook his pressure. Ok he was taking a few (not terrible amounts) but what he did was stalk and mentally fatigue Groves who wastes far to much energy feinting and with over dramatic footwork as well as movement.

I think he stalked for a good 8 mins just cutting him down and in end Groves got embroiled into trading which i put down to naivety and good work from Anderson knowing the young man couldn't handle being pressed for a long period. Maybe Anderson didn't even know his cutting off of the ring and few digs now and then was working effectively. When you watch the fight it looks like he's being outboxed easily and he was but he was slowly edging forwards and Groves concentration started to wane.

Groves isn't a backfoot fighter and wasn't as a AM he can box but there's a difference some fighters are happy to be against ropes. Groves for me doesn't look happy and it traps him and panic's him into swinging. Groves was a more fundamental boxer and i don't mind things Booth's added but i believe he's also put Groves in dangerous positions for no reason.

Even against Smith in round 1 he backs up into corner near end and is buzzed by a right hand. It's not the lads game and you see a stark difference in round 2 when he leads off centre ring. If he does this against Anderson he wins for me. Do what he did in Anderson I and DeGale fight and he walks a thin line.

 

Well I look at it like this........Groves on his best night, De Gale below par, which you would have to say was if we're honest, still only just beat De Gale. Infact some think De Gale still won, and most insinuate they would pick him to win a rematch, so......

Yeah. Against Anderson Groves was trying to use defense to create offense.

Counter punching is like setting a trap though, where by you invite someone in so you can take advantage when they see their opportunity to lead off. Groves is not adept enough defensively to be allowing someone inside and giving them a still target.

As you say, Anderson pretty much just applied mental pressure.

I agree about his footwork to. Its poor imo. Its unravel when pressure's put on him. Just look at how De Gale was able to start catching up with him when he started putting his foot down and neglected that he might get hit on the way in.

Castillo was able to do the same thing with Mayweather. He would stalk him but maneuver him into areas of the ring where he could bang him. You think your moving where you want! to move, but the opponent thinks he's maneuvering where he! wants you.

I said before the fight I felt Groves couldn't afford to back up from De Gale because he has sloppy footwork on the back-foot. Now he surprised in terms of how effective he was off the backfoot, but I attribute a lot of that to De Gale not putting his foot down enough! Its under pressure where a fighters poor footwork starts to unravel, see Khan in the last few rounds of the Kotelinik fight, or against Maidana, who wasn't even cutting the ring off, or Peterson.

Groves is a very uncoordinated fighter imo. I think part of the problem could be that the lower half of his body is not in sync with the upper part of his body, which has a knock on domino effect on his overall technique. His body is often torqued an awkward position cause he has his feet side on, but his shoulders squared up. Now add this to the fact he has his hands low and its a recipe for distaster. He reminds me of Froch in terms of he seems to move in stages when moving laterally. Like if if he had to move quickly and had less time to think about where to put his feet he would start crossing his feet and looking disorganized.

 

Top Post Goon :good

 

thumbsup:thumbsup

 

some top top posts on here from skills and gooners. most of the points I agree with. especially skills mentioning the unecessary feinting and movement groves makes. i feel he doesnt really make it for a purpose he is just making the movement as he feels he should. after a while the opponent realises the feint isnt about to be followed by a punch, increases in confidence and walks forward. wastes a lot of energy too.
groves to me looks unorganised and panicky when on the ropes and i think anderson will presurise him and eventually catch up with him before koing him. or ref stopping it.

and as others asaid and i have said on other threads. degale lost but only just after fighting terribly. he easily looked the more dangerous when he got stuck in and threw combos. groves was at his best and shaded it. i dont see the improvements groves has made since anderson 1 and soon we will see this imo

 

:good Good Post

 

It's dismissive to say DeGale was below par and Groves on top form. It's also baseless. Look at how Groves demolished Smith - was DeGale "below par" that night too?

This sort of revisionism is frustrating and, more than anything, fanciful.

The same people who picked DeGale to win by murder, funnily enough.

This is a common myth about that fight - Anderson didn't have that much success other than the 40 seconds that led to the knockdown. Whenever he tried to pressure Groves after that he got tagged. But let me guess: that was the best Groves and a below-par Anderson?

Some of the posts regarding Groves sound like they're still hurting that he's beaten DeGale twice. It wasn't a controversial decision, just a close one. There was a reason DeGale didn't "step on the pedal" at any point - when he did he hit arms and usually got hit to the body in return.

If he had been good enough, he's have beaten Groves. But he didn't, so he isn't.

Two fights in a row DeGale's been "under par" - perhaps this is his level - a much more reasonable conclusion than the one some are offering.

Gooners, you've been in-depth, but as when you picked Ortiz to beat Mayweather, you've gone over-board. Some guys are just better and it's not a simple technical equation.

Anderson isn't beating Groves, by the way. I don't buy he was 60%.

 

Have to disagree on the Mental Pressure aspect it was i who brought that up. It wasn't about success and it wasn't Kenny's plan to mentally break Groves but Groves was mentally fatiguing under pressure cos he was being forced to work and thus making him tired. He admitted after fight that it was first time he had to follow a plan (although he was wrong he said same about Adamu). Groves was being forced to produce good quality punches and work on a consistent basis as well as nervous energy knowing Anderson had a dig which made Booth apply those cautious tactics.

At end of fight he actually gets lifted back to corner. He was spent physically and mentally IMO.

 

Thought DeGale won, but that aside...

Jab his way in for a start would have put Groves jab and run tactics in serious problems.

The problem is a lot of James's flaws have been cultivated since he won the Gold medal,l in the gym, in sparring. So to ask what McDonnell should have done on fight night is probably not correct and the wrong question.