What they said about John L Sullivan.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Mar 24, 2020.


  1. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Some saw Sullivan live, others commented on him up to the the 1970's.

    Professor Mike Donovan commented on Sullivan’s style "It wasn’t boxing. It was like being hit by a runaway horse." The Professor called John L. the strongest man he ever fought and add, "He used his right as a blacksmith would use a sledge hammer …"

    Charlie Harvey, old time manager, described Sullivan as a "rushing, tearing
    in, two-fisted fighter with a power punch" and called him "… big, fast, and
    courageous"

    Diamond writes about Sullivan -- "He was quick on his feet -- as
    quick as any modern heavyweight. And what a punch he had! A knockout in each hand! He was not a scientific boxer but a slugger, depending mainly on a vicious right swing to the jaw."

    Durant and Rice "He was superbly fast with his hands and he moved always forward, growling as he advanced.

    Grombach describes Sullivan in this way "According to the writers of his time, he was a great burly, slugging fighter with bull-like tactics, mighty fists, and little science. He was good-natured, generous, conceited, blustering, and extremely popular."

    Durant and Bettman state that "…he was more than merely strong.
    He was amazingly fast for a big man and had a knock-em-dead punch in either hand. Ring science was not for John L. He never bothered much with defense. He brushed aside blows and kept moving forward, always punching. His was a hurricane attack."

    McCallum describes him "He was far from being muscle-bound. He was a 'natural' puncher. His punches were perfectly timed, seldom wild, and fast. In the ring, he was extraordinarily fast. His hands were large. His shoulders enormous, his chest was remarkably deep

    Lardner writes that Sullivan was a bully, a boozer, and abraggart and later adds that he looked like a conqueror with his florid face, black brow, black hair, mustache, and aggressive fighter’s jaw. Burrill says he was "notorious for drinking and tavern brawls."

    Tom Langley says that "Sullivan implicitly believed in his invincibility and wasted no time in passing on this information to the world."

    Billy Roche, famous referee, rated Sullivan as the greatest of all
    heavyweights and said that John L. had the best "One-Two" punch that he
    (Roche) ever saw.

    Gilbert Odd, boxing historian, once wrote that John L. in most of his early years only had to hit a man one time. If he did not knock the man out of the fight, he knocked the fight out of the man.

    Grombach writes: "…if the strength, speed, hitting power,fighting instinct, and ring ferocity of Sullivan had been developed in the school of modern boxing, and were he around today, he would be a dangerous challenger to any champion."


    ^^^ Based on this collection, you can draw the following conclusions. Sullivan had faster hands than you might think, and was fairly mobile. He wasn't very skilled, and of course he could hit.
     
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  2. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    Sounds like your typical berserker. All offense with surprising speed and toughness but lacking finesse and strategy. Really a shame we don't have footage, sounds like he was quite the exciting fighter to watch.
     
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  3. TBI

    TBI Active Member Full Member

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    This is why we need a time machine...
     
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  4. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    You will observe that a few of these men describe him as a two handed puncher.

    I have never heard anybody describe him as a right hand specialist, before he broke his left arm in the Patsy Cardiff fight!

    His power and speed obviously shocked the world at the time!
     
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  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Obviously we can't watch him fight, but there were contemporary observers, who lauded his scientific boxing!
     
  6. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King

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    I am very confused by your post. Did you not see the quotes from the dozen or more ring side observers in the first post that all seemed to agree Sullivan lacked any sort of science or technical ability and relied on power, toughness, and instinct?

    "Ring science was not for John L. He never bothered much with defense. He brushed aside blows and kept moving forward, always punching. His was a hurricane attack."
     
  7. andrewe

    andrewe Ezekiel 33 banned Full Member

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    We do have footage of Jack Johnson, who boxed after he did. His style was archaic compared to 70s heavyweights, I don't see it reasonable to say Sullivan would have ever been able to compare with them.
     
  8. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Jack Johnson style was created in order to take advantage of small gloves and grappling. It's not possible to fight that say with modern rules and equipment, but it doesn't make his style "archaic". Modern style wouldn't work back then nearly as well.
     
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  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Sullivan was nothing like Johnson.

    He was obviously a lot more like Jack Dempsey, or Tarry McGovern!
     
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  10. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Sullivan is a great enigma to us. We don't even have anything good from Jeffries who fough way later than him, it's impossible to say how he would look like, but it would be quite interesting to see.
     
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  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    If you read Adam Pollack's biography, you will get the opinion of people who actually saw him from ringside.

    What people wrote twenty years later, is much less interesting!

    It is important to clarify, that most of these men did not actually see Sullivan from ringside!

    They got the information second, or third hand.

    The people who actually were at ringside, usually told a different story!
     
  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    That is the fun of it!

    It is like trying to work out what a T rex looked like when it was alive!
     
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  13. Charlietf

    Charlietf Well-Known Member Full Member

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    If he did not knock the man out of the fight, he knocked the fight out of the man.

    Wow
     
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I think Sullivan had an average left hand. Others such as Corbett said it. IMO, John L was puncher in a land of few and really stood out because of that, and his very fan-friendly personality. Defense and lateral agility was not very good in the 1880's in general ( there were a few exceptions ) so it must have been a puncher's paradise.

    If Sullivan took a good punch, sure he could be competitive or even beat some champions decades after him. That is a question mark, as none of the historians spoke his durability, and good chins are rather uncommon at heavyweight. Sullivan really didn't face any punchers who landed to test the outer limits of his mustache.

    His prime was very short but explosive. The concepts of defense and scientific boxing were not in his wheelhouse. Even Sullivan himself said the game had changed by the time Jeffries was champion and Jeff would have pout it to him to use Sullivan's words.

    Also there is film on Sullivan, not in the ring but hitting the bag. I'd advise all not to watch it as the snap accuracy and whatever he had in his youth is not shown.
     
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  15. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Otherwise called a body punch, or getting somebody's respect!
     
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