What was Ali's biggest win

Foreman, and it is not even close.

Liston I was a shocker all right; but Ali was clearly the best fighter and the outcome was never in doubt.

Frazier III was the clash of two faded champions, a lot of drama, no doubt; bit not exactly Ali's most skilled display.

Versus Foreman Ali was the underdog. That figth was not joke and Ali had to put an amazing show of skills, smarts, grit, endurance and mental fortitude. The whole enchilada.

 

Rumble in the jungle.

Foreman was as good as he ever got that night, and very well prepared, while Ali was himself past his best.

Twenty years later the same man would become the lineal champion again in his late 40s.

It doesn't get much better than that.

 

Great win in its own right but also a helluva an investment when Ali bought up on all Foreman stocks back in ‘74.

Like getting in early on Apple or Microsoft though Foreman stocks did dip somewhat shortly after Ali’s acquisition and then they were frozen for a good number of years.

Still, the ultimate gains over a 20 year period were astronomical.

 

Ali himself, and for as long as his voice remained audible, always said it it was Liston I, while Manila was his best fight. I defer to Muhammad himself that it was Liston I.

Foreman was obviously historic, but Muhammad made it clear that actually wasn't a hard fight for him in relative terms, that Norton II was more difficult, as was Shavers (who fought a very smart fight, and like Lyle, Ali stressed how good Earnie was in general.) Both Frazier and Norton put him through hell three times each. Live commentators with Bob Sheridan had Ali very quickly in control as that one proceeded and were predicting a mid rounds knockout win for Muhammad. In fact, it was neither a relatively hard or close fight for Ali, who had been far more active and in much better shape, commencing training at a much lower weight than George started at. The gulf in experience was massive. (Joe Frazier: "He's using the old pro skill on George and George is falling for it!" Another commentator, "It's Ali all the way, and it'll end in the next few rounds.")

Kinshasa was not the Norton or Frazier trilogy, or the massive upset Liston I was coming off his previous two bouts with Doug Jones and Henry Cooper in 1963, where it looked as if the wind from a missed Sonny jab might blow him over. Yes, Liston had the same injured left which had impaired him in Patterson II, but based on Jones and Cooper I, it makes sense that Sonny and his team thought they could get away with it again.

 

You're acting like Ali-Foreman was a highly competitive bout. It wasn't -- Ali won practically every round.

Ali was a bigger underdog against Liston. The betting odds for the Liston fight were 7-1 against Ali. Against Foreman they were 4-1. By the time he fought Foreman, Muhammad was a well-established great champion, as opposed to a comedic, charismatic novice against Liston.

I'm not sure how it can be anyone but Liston here. The Liston win MADE Ali.

 

Foreman IMO was his both Ali's biggest and greatest win. He was absolutely supposed to be destroyed by Foreman. I understand why some are saying Liston, but no one really knew Ali at that time, he was supposed to be cannon fodder, food. Against Foreman, everyone knew who Ali was, saw one of the greatest champions ever in wars with his arch nemesis. And saw that arch nemesis get melted by Foreman. No one was giving Ali much of a chance. Even if Ali ended up basically coasting his way and didn't struggle much with Foreman.

 

In a sense, the Foreman win made Ali too. He became a figure of untouchable popularity, in & out of Boxing, as a result of that fight.

 

Ali was beaten pretty convincingly by Frazier and was beaten by Norton in a close fight (I'd argue beaten twice in a row by Norton). Then Foreman shows up, just about kills Frazier to get the title, blasts out Roman in one round, then just about kills Ken Norton in one round.

Foreman looked like an unstoppable juggernaut. People were worried Ali was going to be beaten up as badly as Frazier or Norton were against Foreman.

Absolutely Ali's biggest win because not only was Foreman considered unbeatable, but he was considered particularly unbeatable by Ali due to the common opponents.

 

The win greatly enhanced his image and legacy, of course, but Ali was the biggest celebrity athlete in the world with or without Foreman. Ali's fights were amongst the most anticipated and watched events prior to Zaire -- the first Frazier fight arguably being the biggest in boxing history.

 

Foreman, Liston, Manila in that order

 

I don't think Foreman was Ali's biggest win, but boxing's biggest win. As Ali himself said upon resigning the WBA Title, "I wouldn't say I saved boxing, but I think I revived it." In fact, Kinshasa did make me a boxing fan, then Harry Carpenter's fine coffee table book, "Boxing: A Pictorial History" came out between Kinshasa and Wepner, Ali-Wepner begat the Rocky film franchise, Muhammad then defended the Championship on live network television as broadcast on ABC and announced by Howard Cosell in a suspenseful challenge by Ron Lyle (already made familiar before the FOTC on CBS's "60 Minutes" in early 1971) as it unfolded live with Ron actually leading until the sudden end, then he capped off an extraordinary 1975 with Manila, then more live network appearances against Coopman and Young, followed by the unexpected success of the US Olympic Boxing Squad in Montreal on ABC with Cosell announcing as Foreman provided analysis, bringing attention to the excitement smaller weight boxers could provide, triggering the cascade led by the Fab Four.

Again, Kinshasa triggered all that, but even he did not consider that a hard fight or a bigger win for himself than Liston I, but indeed it sparked the revival of boxing itself. (Of course Ali was dethroned by one Olympic Gold Medalist from Montreal, and an Olympic Bronze Medalist was his WBA successor.)

 

To be fair I wasn’t around at the time, so don’t want to speak too authoritatively…but the impression I get is that Ali would’ve been more or less out the back door if Foreman blew him away. Maybe not entirely, but close.

 

Frazier 3, then Foreman, then the first Liston fight are my top 3 favorite Ali performances.

 

Foreman, because at that time he was at his peak, younger and the favorite against Ali, who was already in a slight decline...

 

Foreman, he was in his prime, people thought Ali was washed, Foreman had the aura, which can indeed make a huge difference, when someone’s aura is cracked, fighters are more confident in themselves against them, Ali could’ve easily have froze, Foreman had destroyed guys that had beat Ali.