What was the best version of Holyfield?

If you have scored it yourself why are you using punch stats?

 

I need to rescore it.

Punch stats when one guy lands a certain amount of punches over the other guy in a fight with no knockdowns, predicts the winner with excellent accuracy and often does a better job than the judges themselves. I've seen too many fights that are close when one judge has it 115-113, the other 113-115, and the 3rd judge sends him his card from outer space at 118–110! Punch stats score cards if there was such a thing would never do that. I've also seen fights where one guy comes on strong for the final three rounds, but judges give it to the other guy, and by doing so, makes him the winner, which I suspect could be the case in Bowe vs. Holyfield II. Punchstats would not do that either.

I use punch stats to point out what could be bad decisions as its a completely natural 3rd party type of tool. I'm not saying replace the judges with it, I'm saying its a good BS detector.

Which fight have you seen where one guy out lands the other by 100 punches, and he's the bigger puncher who wasn't floored and lost? its a very good question.

 

There’s no doubt Holyfield juiced but he was active during probably the most prevalent era for PEDS in the sport. You would struggle to pick a heavyweight who wasn’t, even the overweight less disciplined ones.

I’d also argue that with exception of Bowe 1, Holyfield’s defeats all came either post prime and long past prime. The fact he could take for example, a prime Lewis 24 hard rounds in 1999 is a testament to his ability. Do you assume Lewis was a PED free fighter?

I scored the 2nd Bowe fight to Holyfield by two rounds. I certainly feel the 20 minute break helped Riddick more as at the time he was gassed and starting to soak it up.

But hey, I’m a huge Holyfield fan who spent my teens watching him during his prime years.

 

I agree with the first sentence. I don't know if Lewis was juiced. Holyfield's body went through quite a transformation ( there can be a thread on that topic ) , and excessive PED's might have caused him to go prematurely bald. The way Lewis fight Holyfield was safety first as Holy had a good counter puncher and went to the body well .

Lewis hiked his guard up extremely high, to protect himself from these body shots in the second fight. They aren't around these days, but old time boxing fans can be the best. I was watching Holyfield vs. Lewis in a sports bar. the older gentleman sitting two seats from me said, what is this **** , its a disgrace the heavyweight champion of the world can't take a body shot! He wasn't wrong.

 

If punch stats were accurate then yes they could be used.

However punch stats don't account for a number of things

1) human error when inputting data

2) how clean and effective a punch is

3) what damage a punch does

4) the ebb and flow of a fight

 

Punch stats are pretty accurate, and can be reviewed and counted. Maybe there is a mis read here and there but we are talking about a difference in 100 punches landed, and the margin of error, could be in Holyfield favor.

Bowe landed the better. He won the early rounds, Holyfield the mid rounds, IMO Bowe closed stronger in the final rounds.

If you sit ringside, the judges can't see the punches landed as well as you can on video. Ring generalship is best judged live.

Like I said punch stats can police bad judging. If you can show me 3 fights where the winner was out landed by 100 punches in a fight with no knockdowns, I'd nod my head. Usually when something close to to this happens is BAD judging and controversial.

 

I honestly don't take them seriously.

 

I would say he was in his absolute Peak Physical form for Douglas and Foreman. But his best performance was the 2nd Bowe fight. Losing made him a smarter fighter. But he could never quite push and maintain as rigorous a pace post Bowe 1. That first Bowe fight took something out of him, but in losing he also gained the smarts needed to win fights later on in his career. Prior to Bowe 1 he would always just keep coming and eventually break your will and out gut you. He learned after Bowe 1 that that formula wouldn’t always guarantee success. So it’s a hard question to answer, physical Peak, Douglas fight. Best version h2h for winning the most fights Bowe 2.

 

Yes absolutely!! I’ve always argued that the fan man break definitely helped Bowe, he had two cuts and seemed to be fading rapidly and Holyfield was definitely coming on strong in the fight.

But like you I’ve been in love with Holyfield forever, since he was an amateur fighter so I’m probably a little biased.

Punch stats also don’t win fights, you can build a punch stats edge over just a few rounds and then lose all the rest. You could Outland your opponent 25 to 10 for 2 rounds let’s say and then you’re up by 30 punches and then be outlanded by your opponent by let’s say by 5 punches a round and lose 5 strait rounds and still be credited with landing more in the fight. It’s a Flawed way to judge a fights outcome for sure. I have scored this one before and it is a close one but Holyfield always nicks it.