What was the purse between Jack Johnson vs Jim Battling Johnson in 1913?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Nov 12, 2018.


  1. Berlenbach

    Berlenbach Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,191
    1,252
    Sep 27, 2011
    All that really proves is there wasn't much interest in seeing Johnson defend against a black journeyman. Judging by the way the Fireman Jim fight tanked, there wasn't much interest in seeing him defend against a white journeyman either.
     
    Mendoza likes this.
  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,745
    29,119
    Jun 2, 2006
    Johnson needed a white challenger to draw big.Curley had persuaded himself that Flynn would be a credible opponent after he beat Morris ,but Johnson had already outclassed the Fireman in a previous match.
    You can't blame Jack for taking the easy money!
     
  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,354
    Jun 29, 2007
    But you said you KNOW in this thread. Now your saying it wasn't verified??? Do you have any idea how silly you look. :nonono

    Oh I know. - Post #2 in this thread by McVey
    Buy the book. - Post #4 in this thread by McVey
    Then when pressed, you say its not verified? How they heck do you know then!

    You said buy the book, and later mentioned Pollack's name. Hide no more, what page is this on from the Geoffrey C. Ward book?

    I'd say your honesty and integrity are on the line right now if you value it. No switching topics.
     
  4. Berlenbach

    Berlenbach Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,191
    1,252
    Sep 27, 2011
    But Flynn was a white challenger and it didn't draw big. They didn't even make enough to cover Johnson's purse. It proved Johnson couldn't just fight any white guy and expect the fight to be a hit. It had to be someone credible or already popular in their own right. I don't blame Jack for taking that fight, btw. $30,000 to beat up a guy you've already beaten up once. Nice work if you can get it.
     
    mcvey likes this.
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,745
    29,119
    Jun 2, 2006
    He had already thrashed Flynn.
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,745
    29,119
    Jun 2, 2006
    It' s in Unforgivable Blackness look it up for yourself.
    Page 354
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,354
    Jun 29, 2007
    If it was Gunboat Smith, I think the gate would have been better especially when you consider he knocked Johnson silly in a 1909 ex match. That's all the promotion one would need, not to mention Gunboat beat a few good fighters in his day

    Johnson waited over a year after the DQ Flynn win to fight Battling Jim Johnson next, which was another poor show in the ring. Why not fight McCarthy instead? By April 1913, McCarthy had beaten Kaufman ( who Johnson defeated in a title shot in 1909 ) Flynn 2x, and Frank Moran.

    Johnson vs McCarty would have been a highly attended match in 1913, it would just have to be outside of the USA due to Johnson legal status / fleeing the USA on a bond

    McCarthy was picking up steam as the " top white hope " Check the below article that refers to the young McCarthy as shifty as Corbett with Jeffries slam.

    [url]https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83045396/1913-01-19/ed-1/seq-36/[/url]

    Ironic, Johnson fought neither of the top two white hopes in their primes in GunBoat Smith and Luther McCarthy for title shots, and settled for the likes of Jim Flynn, Tony Ross, and Jim Kaufman. He was eventually beaten by Willard.

    This essentially means he never fought the best black or white contenders while champion from 1909-1914. It really wasn't a color line, it was more like an ability line.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,745
    29,119
    Jun 2, 2006
    Johnson was 35 years old and had been out of the ring for a year and a half when he defended against Jim Johnson,he broke his radius bone in the third round and fought virtually one handed for the next 7.
    Unlike your hero Vitali who quit cold with a damaged rotator cuff when in front and heavily outweighing his last minute substitute opponent the punchless Chris Byrd
    Johnson to fight McCarty [no H,] he telegrammed Tommy Burns ,who was promoting in Canada, suggesting he defend his title against McCarty there.Burns turned thumbs down on the deal because he was the man behind Pelkey and he wanted to promote a fight between them .He realised Johnson would be a heavy favourite to beat both and didn't want his golden goose eliminated.Burns statement of refusal is in Pollacks book,you know the book? The one you haven't read!lol
    This is easily verifiable for anyone who wants the truth, of course that excludes yourself!lol

    Smith was only a viable contender for around 14 months, check out his record and his results. You keep pushing the knockdown of Johnson by Smith in a spar,its a broken record, but it obviously gives you comfort!lol
    And by Christ you sure have tried your best to get the maximum mileage out of it!
    ps Q . Why didnt Marciano defend against Toxie Hall?
    Hall knocked him down in sparring
    Q.Why didn;t Tyson defend against Greg Page?
    Page knocked him down in sparring.
    Q.Why didn't Vitali Klitschko defend against Travis Walker and Raphael Butler .
    Both knocked him down in sparring.

    You're really kind of sad ,do you know that?
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2018
    Man_Machine and dinovelvet like this.
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

    71,585
    27,251
    Feb 15, 2006
    I would take any book, where the author had researched the topic in detail, over Boxrec.

    Boxrec researchers have such a broad task, that they research individual topics, in the most superficial way.

    They do a good job, but that is the best that they can do.

    A capable researcher, who researches a topic for its own sake, will inevitably better them by a large margin.

    You could stand to read a few of Adam's books to be honest!
     
  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,745
    29,119
    Jun 2, 2006
     
  11. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

    61,659
    46,307
    Feb 11, 2005
    This thread goes to prove that Classic Battles can be fought over well worn turf.

    Bravo!
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,745
    29,119
    Jun 2, 2006
    He needs to ask himself what finding out the size of the purse will do for him?If it was a good sized one he would have an argument that Johnson could draw good money fighting an average black challenger and it would prove,promoters Coffroth,Rickard and Curley were wrong when they said
    " two blacks fighting for the heavyweight title won't draw flies".
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
  13. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,354
    Jun 29, 2007

    McVey says he knows the purse. Now he's trying to back walk his lie.

    Who says I only look at Box Rec? Box Rec is what it is. a collection of people adding to a database. I'm a film guy and newspaper guy. Both to me are better than books.

    I think the historians or fans in this forum are lacking in film viewing in general. Authors are often mistaken have agendas, but the film unless it was doctored shows what went down without either mistakes or an agenda, allowing us to judge for ourselves.
     
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

    55,255
    10,354
    Jun 29, 2007

    Don't speak for me. Ever. If they fought for a low purse, I would say Johnson could have made a lot more $$$ fighting Langford or Jeannette, which is what the French wanted. Johnson did not, and the French stripped him of what they viewed as his title.

    Actually, if it was Langford or Jeannette, the purse would automatically be much higher, and the fans would not boo the action as much. But safety Jack Johnson wasn't going to do that, even though he loved to spend his money.

    Now Mr. Liar, can you tell us what the purse was? :)
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,745
    29,119
    Jun 2, 2006
    Page 354, as I told you in a previous post, you dumb ****!
    Langford and Jeannette fought for the French version of the title the next day. What were their purses?