What was the purse between Jack Johnson vs Jim Battling Johnson in 1913?

I wish Johnson was more concerned with facing the best contenders than how much money he could milk out of the championship.

 

He probably felt it was all a bit of a scam, that it was often based on the colour of your skin or the politics. It’s understandable but he might not have respect for the institutions or how he might be regarded by others present and future. He was understandably concerned about getting his.

 

Johnson may have caused the White Hope era but he didn't originate it, he merely took advantage of the White Public's prejudices.
I think you have a Corinthian idea of what boxing is . If you want to get up to speed follow Deontay Wilders career. Boxing is, and always has been a business. That's why Tony Zale fought Rocky Graziano instead of more deserving contenders.That's why Joe Louis fought nearly all White challengers.
Why didn't Sullivan defend against Peter Jackson?
Why didn't Corbett do so?
Why didn't Willard defend against Harry Wills?
Why didn't Dempsey?
Johnson at least defeated nearly all the black fighters of his era.
To get to the front of the queue he beat:
Frank Childs
Denver Ed Martin
Sam McVey
Joe Jeannette
Black Bill
Klondike Haynes
Peter Felix
Morris Harris
Joe Butler
Sam Langford
And drew with Hank Griffin several times.
That's why he was the Colored Champion.
You can argue several of his adversaries improved over the years ,and I can counter that by saying so did Johnson!

Is it just Johnson you think is at fault, because I've never seen a post of yours criticizing any other champion on this issue?

 

Johnson was made to wait years for his title shot, the title shot he undoubtedly deserved earlier.He was 30 years old when he finally won the title and had to settle for a pittance to get his chance.Can we blame him for swimming with the tide and defending against a procession of White Hopes?If Langford ,Jeannette ,or McVey were in his shoes would they have done any different?

 

Terrific Post!!

 

No he couldn't and if you think he could PROVE IT! Produce these offers!

He didnt avoid McCarty he offered to fight him in Canada the offer was declined.He didnt avoid Langford or McVey he agreed to defend against both of them inAustralia the offer was withdrawn when Johnson skipped bail.

He didn't avoid Jeannette he signed to fight him in NY twice ,both fights were vetoed by the NYAC.
All this information is verified from primary sources and I have published them many ,many times!
I do wish you would educate yourself on this because I get somewhat tired of correcting your biased lies week after week.
Tony Toss Lol.

 

For all the talk of "boxing is a business", plenty of other champs throughout history were willing to take risks and face deserving challengers and still made good money doing so. Louis faced at least half a dozen #1 contenders in his reign, including two consecutively at one point, plus numerous others ranked #2, #3 etc. It's not like you don't get paid for fighting a top contender, usually you get paid more.

The business argument boils down to fear of the gravy train coming to an end. So certain champions made a business decision to avoid dangerous challengers in favour of opponents who had little chance of beating them, thus allowing them to continue making money off the title. Johnson is not alone in this, however he is a pretty egregious example of it. I don't see why he, Dempsey, Sullivan, Zale and co should get a pass for basically shutting out their rightful challengers because they wanted to carry on milking the title.

My opinion is Johnson had no interest in defending against Langford. He said so himself on more than one occasion, and people who knew him quoted him saying similar. Johnson's excuse was the public wouldn't pay money to see him face a black challenger, but he was happy enough to defend against the much less distinguished black journeyman Battling Jim. And it's a matter of record that there were big money offers from promoters all over the world for a Johnson-Langford fight. It's also a matter of record that Johnson backed out of at least one agreement to face Langford.

Why not just take one of those offers, beat Langford up, collect your money, keep your title and then carry on making money off the white hopes? Unless, in business terms, the risk of being decapitated by Langford, even for $20,000 or $30,000, just isn't worth it when you can make money in lower risk bouts against Ketchel, Fireman Jim, Frank Moran etc and keep your title as well.

 

It's certainly true that many fighters assess risk and reward when making fights but there are some guys like Joey Giardello, Gil Turner, and Emile Griffith who consistently fight the most dangerous opposition available.

Giardello managed to fight the vast majority of the top contenders of his era despite being under no obligation to face any of them prior to winning the title. And once champion he defended against the best.

 

I am not going to research this thing to death, but Giardello was all in after he defeated Tiger. He defended as infrequently as he could (one successful defense) and took two lucrative non-title fights against Rocky Rivero while biding his time. Not saying he hadn't earned the right, but to make him out as as a saint is plain re-writing history. He played it just like anyone else in his position. Nice try.

 

I am relatively unlearned about Jack Johnson especially when delving into details.
These discussions interest also seeing facts and clashing. In today’s world it is an increasingly valuable skill.

I can, however, recommend a fantastic podcast for those not as steeped in knowledge.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/history-on-fire/id1038514498?mt=2&i=1000394609314

 

Giardello won the title in 1963 defended against Rubin Carter and then Dick Tiger two highly ranked contenders. It seems like a good reign to me. He could have fought more frequently but he didn't spend years sitting on the title and his two defenses were both against deserving opponents. I don't really see any issues here.

 

If its a matter of record that these big money offers were there,and I am referring to offers Johnson refused it should be easy for you to find them and post them.So why don't you?
Johnson accepted a two fight deal to defend against Langford and McVey in Australia, the offer was withdrawn when he skipped bail.A public statement by the promoter H McIntosh was made in a national newspaper giving his reason for pulling the plug on the fight it is reproduced in Pollack's book on Johnson
Johnson twice signed to fight Joe Jeannette in NY only to have the offers withdrawn when the NYAC threatened to take away the licence of any promoter who staged the fight.
Public statements by the Commisioner of the NY Boxing
Commission and the promoters the McMahon Brothers giving their reasons for vetoing the fight are produced in Pollack's book.
These are matters of public record!

I recommend anyone with an interest in Johnson to read the two volume biography of Johnson the verified facts inside it will hopefully prevent them from coming to the wrong conclusions about his career.

Johnson reneged on a deal to fight Langfordm he signed for the fight in the early Autumn of 1908 before he became champion,once champion he demanded more money to defend his title, the promoters the NSC refused to meet his demands.
Opinions are not facts!

I have produced verified facts .

 

The offer you refer to from McIntosh that Johnson accepted was followed days later by Johnson making additional financial demands. This is all mentioned in Moyle's Langford bio. So Johnson hadn't really accepted anything. These extra demands had not been resolved when McIntosh decided to cancel negotiations due to the Mann Act charges. McIntosh was of the opinion that Johnson just did not wish to face Langford.

The NSC didn't spring anything on Johnson. He knew in advance he was agreeing to face Langford as champion if he beat Burns. So he backed out of a signed agreement to face Langford by demanding more money. Incidentally, the £1000/$5000 (plus 33% of the motion picture rights) he was offered was almost identical to what he was paid for O'Brien. He didn't receive anything close to his $30,000 guarantee until Jeffries.

I have both of Pollack's Johnson books. He mentions Johnson turning down a number of other offers to face Langford too.

If anything Johnson's willingness to face Jeannette doesn't reflect well him on since Jeannette was inferior to Langford. At the time of those negotiations Jeannette hadn't beaten Langford since 1905, in Sam's first fight against a heavyweight.