What was Wlad offering Haye if Chisora beat him?

I didn't read all your posts, honestly, because I am tired of reading Widdow_Makers nonsense. I did read a couple from you though, and you were absolutely spot on. He's just deluded. No matter how many times he writes "OMG YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT ARE YOU AN IDIOT?????", it doesn't make his points any more valid. You clearly, from what I read, stitched him up and he doesn't have an answer to what you wrote.

The sad thing is, he is just not willing to criticize Wlad at all. He won't do either. I like to think I've criticized Haye fairly in the past and you've said he's partially in the wrong too. That just won't happen from the Wlad side who are intent on believing their man is completely innocent in all this.

 

correct:good

 

Im not sure about that the mayweather, Judah fight was signed and still went off after judah lost to baldomir, Morales to Raheem. still fought pac man. :think

 

Any actual answers to this?

The point TheSandman is making is absolutely spot on. You can't possibly argue he's wrong.

 

Really? I haven't answered this at least 5 times already?

1st... Wlad also has dates that HE must go by. Just because Haye has his own schedule of availability that he thinks the world revolves around... doesn't mean Wlad's matches up. Wlad was given 2 dates with RTL... April 30th and July 2nd. They both agreed on July 2nd... and Haye backed out. Simple as that.

Also, the fight is in Germany because it makes the most money, and because Wlad is able to secure bigger venues. Just as Haye promised to produce a huge venue in England last time around... then defaulted... Wlad secured one in Germany... they sold 60,000 tickets like hot cakes... and Haye pulled out.

Wlad is the Champ anyways... and Haye should be HAPPY to fight him where ever the hell he wants. I am tired of everyone acting like Wlad needs to buckle to this challengers silly notion of self worth.

Last but not least, as I already pointed out....

YES, Haye could be guaranteed a title fight either way. Just as Adamek is. Sign the contract with the stipulation that if Wlad is not available come July 2nd... then Haye gets to fight Vitali... which would also be a unification fight.(WBC, WBA)

So, there goes another one of Haye's poor excuses.

Haye could have either fought Chagaev in March, and still fought Wlad in July... or worked out the contract just as Adamek did which would have assured Haye a unification fight either way... just in case some crazy would happen. What it all boils down to... is that Haye clearly wasn't willing to make the fight.

 

You are CLEARLY a Haye apologist.

I am not going to bother to keep going over the same things... over and over and over again.

I will say that Wlad is DEFINITELY the true Champ. He is the only unified champ.. the longest standing Champ... and the Ring Magazine Champ. I have not seen a legit list in YEARS that didn't have Wlad at #1. Haye's belt doesn't mean jack ****. He won the WBA belt in controversial fashion against a guy who wasn't even the real WBA Champ and had already lost his title in the ring. How on earth does that put him equal with Wlad? Wlad had already knocked out the true WBA Champ, Chagaev.. the last time that Haye faked an injury and ducked him.

You are clearly not a true boxing fan if you support the bull**** that the WBA pulled with that move. Wlad is the true WBA Champ. I don't need to see the belt around his waist to show me what I saw in the ring.

Vitali's belt don't mean **** either...it's just the truth. A good way to find out that he is a top challenger in the division. Until Wlad gets beat... if he isn't holding the belt... it don't mean ****. Of course Wlad would say that Vitali would beat him, just as Vitali says that Wlad would beat him. They are brothers, you expect them to take the opportunity to talk down on the other?

Was Lennox Lewis the champ when Ruiz and Byrd were holding titles?

 

:good

 

Wlad has been Champ while both Vitali and Haye weren't even fighting in the heavyweight division. Once again... until Wlad gets beat... those other belts don't mean ****. The Champ makes the belt, the belt doesn't make the champ. Wlad became Champ and unified by way of beating the top guys in the division. Like I said... he beat the top guys out there while Vitali and Haye weren't even in the division. Vitali came back and won his WBC title against Peter... who Wlad had already beat. Wlad also knocked out the IBF Champ (who was the longest standing Champ and the RING MAG #1 Heavyweight in the world at the time), dominated the WBO Champ, and knocked out the WBA Champ, picking up the Ring Magazine Championship Title in the process. If that doesn't make him a true Champ in your eyes. I really don't think we should bother going on with any discussions.

By your standards... Wlad could knock out Haye in July... but if the WBA decides at the last minute AGAIN to pull the WBA title from Haye, and give it to Chagaev this time... that Wlad still won't be Champ until he beats Chagaev... Then he fights Chagaev again.. the WBA pulls the belt from him and gives it back to Valuev... Wlad still won't be champ. Because he doesn't have the WBA Title? Even though he knocked out the WBA champ? What kind of logic is that? You put way too much emphasis on those crooked sanctioning bodies. This isn't 30-50 years ago. It's not so easy to try and collect 4 seperate titles from 4 crooked sanctioning bodies... especially when you are knocking out their champs and they are yanking the belt from them at the last minute.

Once again... you are WAY off base, IMO about the belts defining the Champ. That sort of thinking is what's killing boxing right now. The people decide the Champ.

You are telling me that Floyd Mayweather has never been Champ? Pacman has never been Champ? I can go on all day if you want me to. By your standards... guys like James Toney have also never been Champ. Hell, Toney has never held any title other than the IBF title in any weight class. Same with Floyd the WBC. These guys were never Champs? Oscar De La Hoya was never a Champ?

Also, Byrd had the IBF because Lewis VACATED the title in order to avoid fighting Chris Byrd who was his #1 contender. So... if Lewis wasn't fighting "the best" how was he Champ in your book? Once you win the titles, you don't have to defend them against the top fighters anymore, but you get to stay champ? I still considered Lewis the Champ, but it sort of crosses with your idea of a Champ that you lay out. Lewis didn't even fight anyone else for a year, and still didn't fight Byrd. So... if anything Byrd was MUCH more of a champ than David Haye ever was. At least Byrd fought his way to #1 contender status.... went for the title holder... was denied the opportunity to fight... and was given the chance to win the Vacant title in the ring. Rather than Valuev being given a title that he already lost, and Haye getting it from him.

 

Haye had his shot at Wlad.

And he called it off on account of a 'sore back' incurred while shadow-boxing.

With himself.:yep


Then he had another shot at Vitali.

And he called that off (without even a fig-leaf of an excuse) to face the great Sugar Nicolay.


Then he got another shot at Wlad in March, but he called it off on account of....Khan, I think ?


Never mind that if he beats Wlad in March, like he claims he could, it would boost his legacy and future earning power enormously.


And then he gets another shot in July ?


What's his excuse this time ?


He's afraid Chisora might hurt Wlad.
:rofl


Isn't this the same Chisora that Haye pooh-poohed as being completely without merit as a serious contender ?



It doesn't look like Haye ever wants to face Wlad. Ever. Ever.



And Vitali was free, and willing.

But that prospect frightens him even more.



The dude's a joke !

 

Wlad and Haye were available in May. Klitschko wouldn't fight in May because he won't fight outside of Germany. Do you support that? And if your answer is "yes", are you willing to call Wlad a liar because of his claim he will fight "anywhere"?

Do you think the fight makes more money in Germany because it did in 2009? I'm not sure how you could come up with the idea that the fight would be bigger there, unless your reasoning is that it made financial sense to be held in Germany two years ago.

Is that how you've come to the conclusion that the fight would be bigger and make the most money in Germany?

 

Why don't you actually make some decent contribution to a discussion instead of making juvenile remarks and slapping your buddies on the back?