What weight do you need to be to beat a top super heavyweight with skills?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Jun 22, 2017.


  1. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    The examples of someone 190-210 pounds beating someone 235+ pounds or larger ranked in the top 10 are narrow.

    Dempsey over an older and inactive Willard. Carrera vs whomever you pick, and Louis vs. a big, but not very skilled Abe Simon or Buddy Baer.

    I think it's a given that none of the above big guys were very skilled, and in some cases were in bad shape for these match ups. ( Willard, Carrera on the slide, or Simon who was forced to retire younger )

    So one can say that a fighter from 190-210 pounds has never beaten a modern skilled super heavyweight in Bowe's, Lewis', or Wlad's class.

    If you think Willard, Simon, Carnera, or B. Bear are better than the larger skilled heavyweights of today, just so say and that portion of the conversation can be moved to a new thread.

    I'm not saying someone 190-210 pounds would not have the puncher's chance, but they are giving up a lot of weight. Over 40-60 pounds in most cases. And they never beat a skilled super heavyweight. So its a not proven, and taller and heavier order for them.

    But what are the examples of guys 217-238 pound heavyweights, beating big skilled, taller and heavier super heavyweight? I think this is uncovered ground in these parts.

    Let's examine some recent history.

    1 ) Holyfield at 217 pounds via decision over Bowe 246 pounds. And Holyfield was even smaller and lighter than Jeffries was in general.

    2 ) Oliver McCall at 231 pounds TKO over Lennox Lewis ( 238 pounds ) in 2 rounds.

    3 ) Hasim Rahman at 238 pounds KO over Lennox Lewis ( 253 pounds )

    4 ) Corrie Sanders at 225 pounds over Wlad Klitschko KO 2 ( 242 pounds )

    5 ) Lamon Brewster 226 pounds over Wlad Klitschko ( 243 pounds ).

    Some quick conclusions.

    1 ) In all cases, the shorter man and lighter scored an upset.

    2 ) Almost all of the wins are by knockout.

    So it is proven someone from 217-238 pounds can beat a larger skilled super heavyweight who is or will be in the hall of fame by giving up as much as 29 pounds if he can either punch hard, or has top end durability to weather the early storm. A KO win is mostly likely path to victory for the smaller man. A decision win for the lighter / shorter man is less likely.

    Feedback and debate is welcome!
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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  3. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I remember the time Chris Byrd beat Vitali Klitschko.
     
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  4. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    So your conclusion is (basically) : a 230 pound boxer might knock anyone out.

    This is remarkable. Good research !
     
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  5. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Edit this part.
    219-217 isn't what you meant.
     
  6. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Well, I think it has to do with the guys just over 200 pounds naturally either drain themselves to fight at cruiser or juice themselves to a heavier weight.
     
  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    **** With a major injury anything is possible **** and Vitali was in the lead while hurt. I knew someone would mention this, but really who uses a match with a major injury to prove any sort of conclusion?
     
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Okay, which man at 200 lbs ever beat a super heavyweight with skills on Bowe, Lewis or Klitschko's class?

    Where are the 190-210 top contender today at heavyweight?

    You will be at zero for your examples.
     
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  9. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Good catch, edited and fixed!

    Are my examples given fair and historically accurate?
     
  10. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I have concluded that 210 pound Byrd defeated 244 pound Vitali.

    I'm not out to prove anything beyond that.
     
  11. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Yes.
    Holyfield decisioned Bowe.
    McCall KO'd Lewis.
    Rahman KO'd Lewis.
    Sanders KO'd Wlad Klitschko.
    Brewster KO'd Wlad Klischko.

    That is accurate. Yes.
     
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  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yeah, the examples are zero. But as you've already conceded (within about six posts), anything can happen:

    If boxing goes unchanged for 300 years (it almost certianly won't) someone like Joe Louis won't be seen at the very forefront of the head to head argument I don't think.

    But you seem to be making the the claim that it is impossible for someone like Joe Louis to beat someone like Wladimir Klitschko at boxing.

    That's lunacy.
     
  13. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    just be a HW, thats all.
     
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  14. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    How many other fighters would you place in that class ?
     
  15. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    when that injury is inflicted by the other boxers skills.

    You should ask "really WHO uses a match with a major injury to try and argue a reversal of the accepted fight conclusion?"

    Answer - A kliturd when Vitali Klitshcko has lost. EVERY FREAKING TIME.
    1. byrd tko vits - "injury lost him the fight"
    2. lewis tko vits - "injury cost him the win"

    dont get me started on the excuses for wlad either.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017