What weight do you need to be to beat a top super heavyweight with skills?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Jun 22, 2017.


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  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It's far from outrageous to pick Evander Holyfield 1990/1991 to beat all of the best big men of today.

    Or, prime for prime, Lennox Lewis, Vitali Klitschko and Wladimir Klitschko.

    It wouldn't be outrageous at all.
     
    McGrain, Jun 22, 2017
    McGrain, Jun 22, 2017
    #31
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  2. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    Good going. Herol and Dino are like the Laurel and Hardy of stupidity :borra2:
     
    BCS8, Jun 22, 2017
    BCS8, Jun 22, 2017
    #32
  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Well, McGrain, Holyfield is 1-2 v.s Bowe, and the " 1 " is very close and could have gone either way. On a fair scorecard, he's 0-2 vs Lewis.

    So 1-4. Okay Holyfield has a 20% chance of victory. I can live with that, and these facts and data support what I am building to as Holyfield was the smallest example of being " big enough" to upset the best skilled super heavyweight of the times. 20% isn't outrageous. It can happen, but usually is does not.

    I was holding some of this data off, but since you brought it up, I'm disclosing more data now.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
    Mendoza, Jun 22, 2017
    Mendoza, Jun 22, 2017
    #33
  4. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

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    Have the Klitschkos been sniffing round Missus Gee, Herol.

    Has the Welsh dragon been replaced in that boudoir, by even bigger men ? :D
     
    cuchulain, Jun 22, 2017
    cuchulain, Jun 22, 2017
    #34
  5. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

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    You're missing the point of the discussion, dino (as usual).

    Like the poor tormented and demented hero, you're just too easily triggered by the word "Klitschko."



    Why don't you and herol get a room somewhere and talk about TKO 6 and golfers who boxed part-time and such.

    You'd have a great time and it would get herol out of the house (nudge nudge, ;) ;))
     
    cuchulain, Jun 22, 2017
    cuchulain, Jun 22, 2017
    #35
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  6. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    What makes you think Willard, Simon, and Baer were unskilled?
     
    Mr.DagoWop, Jun 22, 2017
    Mr.DagoWop, Jun 22, 2017
    #36
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  7. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I don't see the point behind your questions.
    You're asking me about 1915 to 1950 era and then about 1990-present.

    There's a 40 year gap there, from 1950 to 1990. There might have been some pretty good heavyweights in that time period.
     
    Unforgiven, Jun 22, 2017
    Unforgiven, Jun 22, 2017
    #37
  8. GoldenHulk

    GoldenHulk Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It's definitely not impossible. Chris Byrd had a great career by beating bigger men. It's just a lot more difficult than in the days of Willard and Carnera. Hence the old saying a good bigger man will beat a good smaller one. Nowadays you have guys 6'6, 6'7 and bigger with great skills as to go along with their size.
     
    GoldenHulk, Jun 23, 2017
    GoldenHulk, Jun 23, 2017
    #38
  9. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    let the man answer himself, and you know full well my last set of posts werent klitschko so you just flopped.

    which is the reply u replied to, sufficent in this case. Next time I'll just draw a Venn Diagram with a feedback loop as an answer for you.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
    HerolGee, Jun 23, 2017
    HerolGee, Jun 23, 2017
    #39
  10. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Here's some more data.

    Vitali is 0-1 against the only SHW he ever fought. 0-1 against the best 210 pounder he ever fought.

    Wlad is 0-2 against the only two skilled SHW he ever fought.

    Wlad has a ZERO% chance of victory against former ATG SHWs..Vitali has ZERO% chance against 210 pounders with skills.

    How about that for data?
     
    dinovelvet, Jun 23, 2017
    dinovelvet, Jun 23, 2017
    #40
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  11. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Brilliant post.
    You've actually used his method against him perfectly there.
     
    Unforgiven, Jun 23, 2017
    Unforgiven, Jun 23, 2017
    #41
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  12. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    there is no SHW division, its all HW. for a reason.
     
    HerolGee, Jun 23, 2017
    HerolGee, Jun 23, 2017
    #42
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It went Holyfield's way; so prime for prime he has a victory over one of the best ever "super-heavyweights with skills" already.

    Although past-prime Holyfield pushed Lewis close in the second fight.

    No; that maths doesn't stack up at all. Prime Lewis fought past-prime Holfyield. Prime-for-prime, i'm happy to pick Lewis over Holyfield, but I don't think picking prime Holyfield to beat prime Lewis is anything like objectionable, given how the second fight between them went. And I mean weighing 205lbs. That's a reasonable pick.

    The 20% figure is invalid if you're talking about smaller fighters at their very best. The correct figure would be 33% but the sample is so tiny I wouldn't describe this as "data" at all, more an example.
     
    McGrain, Jun 23, 2017
    McGrain, Jun 23, 2017
    #43
  14. BlackCloud

    BlackCloud I detest the daily heavyweight threads Full Member

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    What makes you think they were?....get out of that one!
     
    BlackCloud, Jun 23, 2017
    BlackCloud, Jun 23, 2017
    #44
  15. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Uhh one of them held the heavyweight CHAMPIONSHIP OF THE WORLD. The other two fought for it twice each. Simon has a knockout win over Walcott. Baer has a knockout win over Simon, knocked Louis down.
     
    Mr.DagoWop, Jun 23, 2017
    Mr.DagoWop, Jun 23, 2017
    #45
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