What welterweights would you pick to beat the Duran of the first Leonard fight?

Ah ok, that explains everything.

Cheers for the honesty

:good

 

Things did change, but not as massively as everyone seems to think. Leonard wasn't really boxing and moving so much as he was boxing then moving. I mean, he wasn't giving Duran the kind of movement that e.g. Viruet was giving him; he was mostly just trying to avoid confrontation for as much of the fight as possible, fighting in spurts.

Leonard made some adjustments, and that certainly contributed to the victory. But let's not exaggerate: Duran was getting hit with shots in Fight II that he quite simply wouldn't have got hit with in Montreal.

 

But did he? The very fact that SRL altered his style after Duran perhaps turned him into a better fighter?

Merry Christmas everybody. artytime

 

Did Leonard ever look as good again as he did against Benitez? I think it was his most complete and all-round best ever performance. JMO.

 

When a guy like you is on the same side of the fence, well lets just say i sleep a little easier

:happy

Merry Xmas mate! :thumbsup

 

Yes, it would. It would only indicate that you know the difference between an opinion based on speculation and having knowleadge of an absolute fact.

Well, three actually (Leonard, Benitez and Hearns).

I'm not tolerant of posters who mistake speculation based on anecdotal "evidence" for absolute truth, and who in turn show little tolerance for those not convinced by this speculation. They belong in General.

Did I have you pegged, or what!

 

OK, from now on I will add the prefix

"I kind of think that, though I'm not really very sure mind, but I kind of think that...."

to any opinion I post again. Will we be friends then?? Goody.

How have I written off Duran's losses to Benitez and Hearns exactly?? Duran was a natural lightweight, and he lost fair and square to both men at lightmiddle in his mid 30s.

That doesn't automatically mean the fight and the result are the same at a different time, at a different weight, and with different circumstances though.

You have repeatedly misrepresented things I have said on this thread. That is not even behaviour befitting of the General. And the thoroughly weird comment from you below does you even less credit:

:nut What a bizarre fellow you are. You "had me pegged" as someone who would think that peak Mike Tyson beats the best version of Evander Holyfield at heavyweight??

Yes, you'd need to be a real psycho to think that, wouldn't you? I should be certified and committed immediately.

 

Taking into consideration the opponent who was just about in his prime I'd probably agree. The thing is though that he did learn from Duran I and applied it in Duran II. OK, you might argue that in the second fight Duran wasn't in the same shape and there's all kinds of **** about the seafood and so on. Fact of the matter is that SRL had learned and for whatever real reason Duran chose to stop fighting in round 8 of the second fight.

The only other meaningful fight he had post-Duran II, before he was forced into injury based retirement, was against Hearns, a fighter with unusual physical gifts. It's very hard to look good (or even win) against prime Hearns unless you throw hell for leather and go right at him (Hagler) or get lucky (Barkley). SRL got the win against Tommy courtesy of round 6 basically, which turned the fight.

We probably never saw the very best of SRL. So it's premature to say that Duran beat the best version of SRL. IMO, the best version of SRL (that we saw) fought Tommy Hearns in 1981.

 

Thanks mate!

Have a good one down under, butchering innocent shrimps on barbies, roasting kangaroos for christmas dinner or whatever you lot get up to at Christmas.

 

Actually, just skipping "this is not a matter for debate" and the suggestion that anyone with a different opinion knows jack about boxing will suffice just fine.

Especially when your claim is nothing but speculation.

No. But it doesn't automatically mean the opposite either. And that's really the heart of the matter, so to speak.

 

Did Barkley get lucky twice in two different ways?

Dunno if I'd go along with that one, the fight see-sawed again and again after round 6.

We saw the very best SRL that ever fought. Saying he might have been better if he had fought during his retirement is just speculation. Leonard had a career, and you can watch his fights and choose what you think the very best performance of his career was. I'd choose Benitez.

I disagree. I am a great dis-believer in the first Leonard-Hearns fight, but that's for another thread at another time.

 

"I kind of think that, though I'm not really very sure mind, but I kind of think that.... Duran beat the best SRL, while SRL did not beat the best Duran".

"I kind of think that, though I'm not really very sure mind, but I kind of think that.... the best Tyson would beat the best heavyweight Holyfield".

You all happy now?

 

I'm not even going to touch the 2nd fight which was way after Tommy's prime. Even the first fight Tommy was 2 years post-prime. Barkley got lucky in the first fight not because it was a lucky punch (it wasn't) but because Tommy gave him a window of opportunity when the fight was all but won. Nothing Barkley did engineered that opportunity. He carried on doing what he had been doing the whole fight which was throwing full power hooks to the head in the hope that one landed. One did.

Well it did see-saw but the damage done in round 6 caught up with Tommy later in the fight. Manny Steward pretty much says that too.

Fair enough. I'd probably go along with Benitez being his best performance. Whether it was the best SRL ever is a different matter.

Another contentious subject. Look forward to participating in it.

 

So you're claiming Hearns to be prime in the rematch?

atsch

I'll choose Duran II!!!!!

Yet you tell us you're this GREAT Leonard fan and love him and, and, and

ffs

 

It wasn't an act of God that Tommy was hurt by that punch, it was his own inherent frailty as a fighter.

Leonard's finishing combinations were absolutely magnificent. I'd rather attribute the end of the fight to that than anything else.

Fair enough.

Perhaps one day we shall.