What welterweights would you pick to beat the Duran of the first Leonard fight?

Duran wasn't an all-time great anymore when he fought Tommy Hearns, or one at 154 or middleweight period.

Look at where a lot of other great fighters were at similar periods in their careers ie..multiple weightclasses and several years past their best and you will find much worse defeats than that.

even Duran has worse himself, against laing for instance.

 

In regards to Durans performance in Montreal, he's talking the absolute truth. So if you find that funny you must have an odd sense of humour.

 

Regardless Duran was coming off two superb efforts vs Cuevas and Moore and a very respected one vs Hagler. Nobody ever blew Duran out either before Hearns or years after. Heck, he beat Hearns victor at 160 well after the Hearns blowout.

I'm pretty sure Duran wouldn't think the Laing loss worse than the Hearns one. The thing is Duran was still performing superb deeds, even if in patches.

 

Don't get me wrong, Hearns win was awesome, and Duran was still very good.I make no excuses for him losing to Benitez or Hearns personally, they were better junior middleweights than he was.

BoKaj's statement was a bit misleading though imo.You have to take into account what stage each fighter was at in their career.

 

Fair enough mate.

 

Sure. Duran was past his prime. No doubt about that.

It's the tendency to make these fanciful claims about how a peak Duran really would have perfomed if not for this or for that, etc, that gets to me.

It's not inconceivable that the best Duran at WW beats the best Hearns at WW, but one have to be aware that such a claim is fraught with speculation.

 

I agree. with these posts. :rastaLong live Roberto Duran!:hat

 

Leonard did have an off night, mainly because he fought flatfooted and went toe-toe and try to knock out an ageing great who had insulted his wife. Ofcourse Leonard shouldnt have underestimated Duran and instead used lateral movement and focused in getting in and out. He was also hurt and a bit out of it after the second round. Great performance by Duran but we saw Roberto gets outboxed when Leonard chooses to stick and mvoe

The only difference between Leonard-Duran 1 and the rematch is Leonard's gameplan. Yes Duran got out of shape, but he was always an alcoholic taco eating fat boy between fights

This forum takes Duran nuthugging and turns it into a new religion.

 

Given some of your comments, particularly regarding Floyd, that's a bit rich.

 

Robinson, slight favorite. His willingness to mix it up, however, would be to Duran's advantage considering Duran's superior defense.

Burley. Here's a man who would psychologically convinced himself that his arms were elastic and his hands were lead. And that's precisely how he punched and it was enough to chill heavyweights. Duran's power was good at WW but Burley's power was off the charts. And Burley was a stylist... A former sparring said that Burley moved like a cloud out there and punched like a fool. I think Duran would have real problems reading and responding to this phenomenon. Given their respective styles, I'd favor Burley more than I'd favor Sugar Ray himself over Duran.

Cocoa Kid really gives me pause but I can't do any more than engage in speculation most shameful. He was good enough to handle Holman Williams repeatedely -outboxing him no less, and was powerful enough to drop Robinson in sparring when he was 36 years old...

I thought about Walker, but I think he came into his own as a MW. He'd beat Duran at 160, but not the Montreal Duran at 147. Great fight though.
I also wonder about Shane. But Shane makes mistakes. Also, Duran was quick enough to avoid getting overwhelmed by anyone's speed that night.

I'd favor Duran over WW Armstrong, Ross, and McLarnin....

 

Palomino didn't have the desire to be the best anymore. He lost his hunger. Once you lose that, even though you have the physical skills, you still won't be the fighter you used to be. This is not taking anything away from Duran's performance.
Concerning Leonard having an off-night, I don't believe he was totally prepared for Duran. He never fought anyone like Duran, and was taken out of the fight early. It's a testament to Leonard that he came back in the later rounds. The fact is SRL learned from this fight. I feel that the Leonard in the 2nd Duran fight would beat the Duran of the Montreal fight. It's just like when Duran fought Dejesus the first time and lost. Duran came back a better fighter.
I was actually rooting for Duran at the time, so I loved the fact that he won, but it's just a great win to me. There are several fighters who stood a chance of beating him. Heanrs, Robinson, Gavilan, Walker, and Griffith to name a few.

 

:huh I can't even work out what your problem with that statement is. To anyone who has seen these men fight throughout their careers, the statement is quite patently correct.

The finest all-round performance of Leonard's career was Benitez IMO. Due to his extensive amateur background and God-given natural talents, Ray Leonard was not a fighter who evolved much through his short career, in beating Benitez he was as good as he would be, and he maintained this high quality level until his first retirement.

And if you can watch the first Duran-SRL fight then the second, and genuinely do not see any physical or mental difference in Duran, then I think you should consider switching your allegiance to another sport.

I don't even know what 'surety' is, but from the context I can work it out. Again, if you can't see the difference between the super-motivated, superbly conditioned Duran of Palomino and Leonard I fights, and the version who was yet another weight class further from his natural and fought at lmw, well then I can't help you. I can't make you see and understand things that you clearly do not at the moment.

Do you seriously think you could have dropped Benitez instead of Leonard into the ring in Montreal, and Benitez would have won?? I think you've been on the Christmas sherry a little too early.

Four years and eight pounds mean a hell of a lot to a natural lightweight already in his 30s. This should be obvious.

Example: Antonio Tarver put Roy Jones to sleep in 2 rounds in 2004 at 175lbs. Do you think Antonio Tarver would have put Roy Jones to sleep in 2 rounds at 175lbs in 2002, the year that Jones utterly dominated and stopped Clinton Woods? Nope.

Change anything about a fight, and the result could change completely. Two years and zero pounds made a hell of a difference to Jones, and by the same token four years and eight pounds made a hell of a difference to Duran.

Every fighter is different as is every situation.

The Duran of Montreal who beat a prime Leonard vs the Hearns of 1981 who was stopped by a prime Leonard. Of course it would not be anything like a two-round blowout.

I can say with complete surety that I genuinely could not care less in any way about your opinion. :good

 

And if you don't think Leonard picked up a WORLD of experience and knowledge (knowledge = power) losing to Duran you should consider the same

:good

 

You think the difference in Ray Leonard between those two fights was as great as the difference in Duran between those two fights??

Come on mate, sober up. Watch the fights.

 

When did Leonard ever fight like that pre-Duran? The only instance of that I can remember was the Olympics.