What welterweights would you pick to beat the Duran of the first Leonard fight?

SSR,Basilio, but fight 1 was a great welter version of Duran that was not reproduced at that weight.....Duran at 135-140 was about unbeatable in condition and He was top 10 based on Leonard 1, a bit short of a prime at that weight

 

You will be waiting a long time for someone to answer that question itry.

Apparently Leonard's "fight", you know the one he plumb forgot about in the first match, was one that he was keeping a secret....Just thought he fight a completely different way his whole career just for the hell of it.

 

What's the difference between SRL and Duran comparatively got to do with it? You made the statement

Terrible post.

The bottom line beside all of this is reputation. Leonard gained many supporters in his never say die loss to Duran, whilst Duran never ever fully erased the stigma of his quitting. It's a thorn in his side that will never be completely dislodged. In most cases it cost him a top 5 (possibly 3) P4P spot ever. Leonard lost nothing, in fact he probably gained. If he beat Duran it would have been a simple case of so he should have beat a lightweight, however great.

Regardless of supposed circumstance, he garnered points for coming back and making the (seemingly) ultimate of macho men surrender in the most embarrassing of circumstances.

 

And yet the statement is still true. Duran beat the best Leonard, Leonard did not beat the best Duran. Simple. Watch the fights, study their careers, and there is no other way of thinking of it.

 

When did Leonard stand his ground, move so little and mix it up so much as he did vs Duran?

Better still, lets look at Leonard Duran II


:good

 

I rest my case

:good

 

I don't understand why it's so easy for you guys to believe that Duran could lose so much in the space of 6 months. If he put on weight between fights that's his own problem, and we criticize Leonard for wanting an immediate rematch when in reality if he had waited longer, we'd have said, "he waited for Duran to slide". It's just rubbish. What I do know is, Duran looked perfectly fine and in fighting shape in the ring to me, and he was losing on the cards prior to quitting. Great win for Leonard.

Duran was wonderful in their first fight, however, but as we know, fighters have great days whereas others have bad days. This was arguably Duran's finest hour and he would never ever repeat such a performance again. I wouldn't pick to many Welterweight in history to have overcome him, perhaps Leonard of the Duran II fight and Robinson. That's it.

 

Have quick geezer at all your early Leonard fights JT ...might want to check out Leonard-Duran I again aswell.

Ray moved about as much as he always did but he was sort of forced to fight his way through this fight because he dropped so many early rounds...He had absolutely no qualms about mixing it up with anyone before he faced Duran..Many of his fights, probably most of his career up until that point he spent standing his ground or on the front foot.

Thats just how he fought..its as simple as that.

Its one of the biggest myths in boxing that the true Ray Leonard came out for the rematch....because the evidence is just not there.

He did fight the wrong in their first encounter...it just happen to be his fight though.

 

Pete Ranzany, 1979. Track it down, watch it, get back to me :good

 

Seen it plenty

So you come back with a guy with a 55% ko ratio that got axed in the 4th round?

 

:huh You asked when he fought in the same style. He fought in the same style in this fight. What part of this don't you understand?

 

Well let us say

Leonard's exceptional talent and diversity allowed him to come out and fight a completely different fight in the rematch. The sort of fight that was needed. History shows us a number of all time greats that did just this.

 

You can just as easily reverse this, and say that the Leonard of Montreal did look no way as good as he did against Benitez or in the rematch. It has to do with the opposition, not just the fighter himself.

Just as Duran's great perfomance in Montreal made Leonard look ineffectual, Leonard's great (but less exciting perfomance) in the rematch made Duran look ineffectual. No great mystery, really.

The case for Duran being in terrible shape for the rematch is not strong. It was just 6 months after his arguably greatest perfomance and his own trainer said he was in shape. He also didn't look tired or winded in the least when he quit. There are claims that he was in poor shape, but those can be found in virtually every case when a popular ATG fighter losses surprisingly and embarassingly.

The case for Leonard being better in rematch is actually stronger. Duran seems to clearly have got into his head before the first fight by insulting his wife, and in any case a fight like that was of course a great lesson for a fighter who so far had had no difficulties in his career.

All in all, objectively there's no substantial argument behind claiming that Leonard was closer to his best in Montreal than Duran was in the rematch.

A Benitez that himself was nearer the tail end of his career than Duran was, beat Duran convincingly. Again, it's just silly to claim with utter conviction that Duran would beat him peak for peak. Perhaps he would, perhaps he wouldn't, but nothing in their actual fight really pointed towards it. Anything else is free speculation.

No, but to reverse the result is poor thinking. And Tarver is a poor comparison, since Jones already had beaten him.

The blow out is closer to Tyson-Spinks or something like that. Between that and Holmes-Tyson, I'd say. No version of Spinks would ever stand a chance against Tyson, but a prime Holmes, perhaps. Still, though, someone predicting even a prime Holmes easily handling Tyson is not to be taken seriously.

So, that's why you spent so much time responding to it?

 

Exactamondo...He changed things up and frustrated the hell out of Duran. You cant take anything away from Ray, some more ardent Duran supporters do play down that win but thats not fair at all. I do think another myth is that he schooled the bejesus out of Roberto in that fight.

He was doing a hell of a lot of dancing, a hell of a lot of taunting..but not much punching and even less landing. Though he was clearly ahead and taking over when Roberto packed it in, I dont think he looked anymore comfortable in the ultra mobile role then he did taking it to Duran in the first match...for the first 4 or 5 rounds anyway.

Anyway..I never ever take anything away from Leonard for the rematch. He was the better man that night, like Roberto was the first time. I just a little less away from Duran then other people do. Not really in a historical sense, Duran lost, he quit and thats a big negative. Just I dont really think its like a template for knocking off the best version of a welter Duran..Some people seem to use that fight to justify picking any generic boxer/mover thats ever laced them up at welter beating Duran.


Merry Christmas all.

 

What part i don't understand is how a poster could not possibly ascertain the differences between a Pete Ranzany and a Roberto Duran and their respective bouts.