What were Jack Johnson's five best wins?

What were Jack Johnson's five best wins?

*** Mcvey, I ask you to please keep this thread clean. ***

My criteria.

1 ) The age, weight, experience level, accomplishments at heavyweight when they meet Johnson. Was the opponent close to his near best or best?

2 ) What was the result of the win? A bet down KO/TKO thrashing, a blow out points win, or a closer points win?

3 ) Using the best guess, where would this opponent have been ranked by Ring Magazine?

My picks:

1 ) Tommy Burns. Known Record 42-3-8. 5'7". 74" reach. Estimated to be 168 pounds. Age 27 Year of the fight 1908

Reasoning. Burns was the lineal champion. He was severely outclassed and stopped by the police. Maybe he had a round or two left, but the ending was clear. Burns would have been rated #1 by Ring Magazine at the time of the fight, however, from an odds perspective you could argue 2 or 3 other men might be favorite to dethrone him.


2 ) Ed Martin. Known record 16-4-1. Year of the fight 1904 6'3 1/2, 78" Reach??? Estimated weight of 190 pounds. Year of the fight 1904. Age 23.

Reasoning: Martin had beaten Sam McVey the year before and proved his worth with a win over Bob Armstrong and Frank Craig. This was for the colored title. Johnson won via KO in two rounds. Ring Magazine might have Martin in their top #8-10 spots as he lost 3 of his last four fights leading up to the Johnson Re-match. The dominance of the win for me is why I list this second overall.


3 ) Sam McVey. Known record 8-2. 5'10" 1/2. Estimated weight 210 pounds. Age 19. Year of the fight 1904

Reasoning: Though only 19, McVey had beaten Martin and Russell. This was his 3rd and final fight with Johnson, so you could say he was ready for him. McVey was stopped in round 20. Ring Magazine might have rated McVey in their top ten, but I suspect his loss to Johnson a few months before would have placed him in the #7 to 10 range.


4 ) Frank Moran. Known record 26-9-4. 6'1 1/2" 77" reach. Estimated weight 203 pounds. Age 27. Year of the fight, 1914

Reasoning: Moran was a better than average " white hope type " in his prime. Johnson was 36 for this fight, so its a past his prime win for him. The footage of several rounds shows a close battle, which Johnson won via decision. Ring Magazine might have rated Moran around #7-10 at the time of the fight. Moran at the time was best known for losing to name opponents.


5 ) Jim Flynn. Known Record 33-8-13. 5'10" 1/2, 69" reach
Estimated weight, 185 pounds. Age 27. Year of the fight 1907.

Reasoning: From 1903- Nov 1907, Flynn was decent, losing only to Root and Burns, defeating Gardner, Twin Sullivan, and Ross. Johnson won via KO in round 11. At this point, Flynn would likely be ranked in the #7-#10 spots by Ring Magazine.


Not listed:

Langford at an estimated age of 20 years old and 156 pounds, Sam had not beaten anyone of note at heavyweight when he meet Johnson.

Jeffries. Out of the ring for six years and 35, he was a shell of what he was. The most famous win, perhaps, but in a boxing sense, this one is not highly rated.

Jeannette. A novice who picked up boxing at the age of 25 with no amateur experience, Jeannette often had a losing or .500 type of record when he faced Johnson with many of the losses being news types over 3, or 6 rounds.

 

Good, let's see if you can keep to your word this time. I do think we agree on my top two picks

Others are welcome to debate it. I do think projecting where Ring Magazine might have rated the opponents is an interesting topic.

 

I don't see how Burns cannot be a top 5 win for Johnson, as Burns defeated Hart, who beat Johnson in 1905. Johnson vs Hart in 1905 was viewed as an elimination fight to meet Jeffries, who later retired. So Hart was the rightful successor.

I think Jeffries was Johnson's most famous win, but hardly his best. To put in in a more modern context is Ali one of Holmes best five wins?

Jeannette was too inexperienced and had some close results, even in the " Newspaper wins, which you need to be careful listing as opinions can vary. Most of those fights were under eight rounds.

I do agree that the 3rd win over Sam McVey should rate, even if Mcvey himself were just a teenager, he had proven himself somewhat by that time.

 

Who had Langford beaten at that point 1906, and where were their records? He was a lower weight to middleweight type of fighter back then, and according to Clay's book, only 20 years old.

If it was an early KO, you could say it was a great win, but Johnson ( with a 30-pound weight advantage ) took a man with limited to no experience fighting men above 180 pounds the distance of 15 rounds.

Jeannette up to 1906 had 13 combined losses and draws, and just ten wins. He was raw for sure.

I do agree Willard was a decent performance for Johnson ( and perhaps best overall opponent ), but we are talking about his best wins.

 

Johnson was 30 years old, and had been boxing since ( 14 years of ring experience ) 1894. Hardly Green HerolGee! He was in his prime and it was his best filmed performance.

Most think Burns was high on the list of Johnson's best wins.

 

Hello Janitor,

Why Ferguson ( Second fight )?

Ferguson had seven losses, and ten draws in twenty-five total fights at that time. In the 20 rounds defeat, Jack Johnson fought dirty and Ferguson right his right hand. So it was hardly a big win if you look at his record and the early injury.

" In round 4 Johnson shoved Ferguson through the ropes into the arms of ringside journalists. At some point here, either because of the fall or from a misplaced punch, the big Canadian injured his right hand and was reluctant to use it. Ferguson claimed he injured his right hand in the third round and used it infrequently from the fourth round on. "

So far it looks like Burns, McVey, and Martin are the clear picks.

 

That might be, but Johnson fought dirty and beat a man with an injured hand. So how is that a big win? My points on Big Sandy's uneven ring record at the time of the fight stands.