What were your thoughts going into Chavez-Randall 1

After the draw (perhaps loss) to Pernell, and his underwhelming performance against Andy Holligan, it appeared Chavez was finally slowing down. That being said, it was somewhat shocking to see his first clear loss come from Randall. Watching the iron chinned Chavez hit the canvas was almost as surreal as watching Buster KO Tyson. But to his credit, Randall took advantage of his opportunity and fought a brilliant fight against Chavez. Randall's subsequent performances against Julio, Coggi, and several others showed that it was not a total fluke. The Surgeon was an Excellent fighter. Although not an all time great, he may well be deserving of a place in Canastota. Both in accomplishments and head to head, he would have beaten the daylights out of contemporary inductees like Arturo Gatti.

 

Man, I had no other thought other than that it was going to be a good fight but as always Chavez would prevail. Caught me by surprise.

 

Anybody who says he foresaw Randall winning is lying. Sure, Chavez looked to have lost to Pernell. But, Whitaker was probably the #1 pound for pound guy at the time they fought.

I thought Randall would be competitive, but thought Chavez would win.

I had followed Randall sine he almost beat Rosario in '85, and I knew he had great talent.

But he wasn't the defensive genius Pernell was, and I knew he would take quite a bit of punishment. I didn't think he would be able to fight through that and win the fight.

Gladly, he proved me wrong.

Randall's story was very inspiring, and I was very happy when won. He beat the odds, the politics of the WBC and Chavez's reputation.

 

I think he would have beaten Tzyu head to head, as well.

That pinpoint straight right would have been big trouble for Kostya.

 

I totally agree. At his best Randall was certainly better than Cool Vince Phillips. And we know how Phillips-Tszyu turned out. And, I never heard a peep about Tszyu wanting a rematch against Phillips. (Even though Vince got obliterated by Ike Quartey)

 

Tszyu was still learning his trade when the vastly more experienced Phillips stopped him. He did his best work years later. Tszyu is the more consistent and proven competitor.

Tszyu beats loads of fighter later on that "were certainly better' than Vince Phillips.

Tszyu lost just one fight in 12 years while on the way up, i'd hardly be thrusting it forth as money in the bank. He pumped the best in the division for half a dozen years.

 

Like many others, I thought that Randall was going to have lead going into the 8th or 9th round and would be eventually beaten.... I had followed him prior to the fight and he was described as being "jaded" but very talented by one of the boxing magazines at that time when the magazines were awesome. He was considered to be underrated going into the fight.... so happy he won... I remember Don King was putting on some massive cards around this time...

 

I agree it wouldn't be "money in the bank" that Randall beats Tszyu. Kostya Tszyu was a very good fighter, and had an excellent career. But, Kotsya was far from green when he lost to Phillips. He was almost 28 years old, had hundreds of amateur fights, and had been champion for over 2 years with several defenses. Tszyu started off well against Phillips. But, Phillips didn't fold. Instead, he started to land his own right hand more frequently as the fight progressed. And the end wasn't just some lucky punch. The end came after a fairly sustained beat down by Phillips. Phillips fought the same way against Ike Quartey about a year earlier and got battered from pillar to post.
My main problem with Tszyu is that he never tried to secure a rematch with Phillips. Neither fighter changed weight class, and Phillips held Tszyu's belt for close to two years. If it was just an off night (as opposed to a style he just didn't match up well with) surely he would have wanted his revenge and/or the title back.
And I think Randall is a very comparable (and superior) fighter to Vince Phillips.

 

No one said Kostya was green, he was still learning his trade and improving. He certainly wasn't peak against Phillips that's for sure. Amateur fights are great but there's no substitute for professional fights against ascendng levels of opposition. dozens of can't miss amateurs have folded in the pro game, it's a different ballgame.

Phillips fought Ike Quartey at 147 and Quartey was 31-0, near twice the fights Kostya had under his belt. He was a big powerful welterweight around his peak.

As for Kostya not rematching, why would he when he was still learning his trade? By the time he was really firing Phillips was long gone. Talk was if Phillips beat Mitchell in 2002 a rematch may have been in order but Phillips lost.

Tszyu chased unifications over other things and belted a couple of heavily hyped yanks in getting them. Judah was a 2 1/2-1 favorite over him and was easily whupped. I'd heavily back Kostya at this point to beat any version of Phillips.

I agree Randall would be an excellent fight, because he is a really really good fighter. In good form he is a good fight for anyone, to call a spade a spade.

 

When Tyson was in jail, promoter Don King went on a roll putting together great boxing cards loaded with three or four main event-quality bouts. My friends and I used to get together every couple months to watch those PPVs and play poker. That was another one of those nights.

I recall being more interested in watching the welterweight title fight between Felix Trinidad-Hector Camacho and the Simon Brown-Troy Waters fight, which were relegated to the undercard.

I didn't expect Chavez to lose. On those PPVs, the "Chavez portion" of the show was more about just watching Chavez break people down. And, after the Whitaker fight, it seemed like there was no way he was ever going to lose a decision.

The Randall-Chavez fight itself was great. Everyone was glued to the television. The tension sort of built and built as Randall kept performing above expectations. When Randall floored him, all hell broke loose. When it came to the decision, we discovered Randall needed that knockdown to win. It was sort of like Tyson-Douglas, in that people were very happy and surprised the favorite lost, but stunned by what they just saw and shocked that the judges weren't seeing it like we were.

It was an amazing fight and a memorable card. But I don't think anyone expected Randall to win. Those shows King put on during those years were more like events than individual fights. They weren't like 99 percent of the cards today, where there is one main event and the undercard is fairly nondescript.

The sum of those cards was greater than the parts. Lots of good (not great) main events (on any other show) but put together on one night. And, for the most part, the events themselves were all awesome.

Most of those nights, I'd go home having watched four or five (sometimes) main event-quality fights, and wondered if King should've spread them out a little more over a couple of weekends so you could relish what happened. Because you couldn't really digest what happened in one good title fight before the fighters for the next main event were entering the ring.

But I think King was right. If you have a lot of decent main events, just make one big card out of them. Fans will love it. (And we did.)

That fight in particular, Chavez-Randall, was great. (Which was good, because the Trinidad-Camacho fight, which I think most were interested in, was a total dud.)

 

I though "here's Julio's next victim"....There was no way to expect what transpired that night.

 

That Tzyu's team only talked of a Phillips rematch in '02, when Vince was about done, shows they were shrewd. Vince comprehensively beat their guy, and it's pretty clear they stayed clear of him when he was still dangerous. Smart move on their part.

They matched Kostya very well after the Phillip's loss and did a great job with him.

But, I don't think he improved much after the loss. The only guy Kostya beat after the Phillips fight, who was arguably better than Vince, was Zab Judah. In fact, that is probably the best win for Tzyu in his whole career.

After the Phillips debacle. Kostya beat some former champs with big resumes, but closely examine where these guys were at when Kostya fought them.

Miguel Angel Gonzales - coming off a draw with a jaded JC Chavez.
Rafael Rueles - had been destroyed by Oscar DeLa Hoya and decisoned by George Scott.

JC Chavez - was way past it. He been stopped by De La Hoya.

The other names he fought in this period were Hurtato, who had been knocked out cold by Pernell Whitaker, and Sharmba Mitchell, who had himself beaten no top prime guys (he was also very well matched) - and had been stopped twice earlier in his career by Steve Johnson and Lavander Johnson.

I think the Randall who beat Chavez would beat any version of Kostya Tzyu.

Kostya stood erect and ate right hands. Randall's was fast and powerful and he would hurt Kostya badly with it. He is faster, has equal or greater power, just as resilent if not moreso, and had better defense.

Randall by mid rounds tko.

 

Randall with his surgeons attire ,mask and all .Walking to the ring ,I was sure he was going to pull out some foreighn objects like scissors/knives/scaples..etc and start slashing everyone after he lost the decision.

 

I thought Frankie was a better fighter than the guys Chavez had been meeting. And he kept those hands high. That said, even as a 15-1 underdog I did not see Frankie stopping him so it is to the scorecards we go, at best. In a DKP fight with his moneymaker, I don't like but love to follow the money.