What will it take to dislodge Ali & Louis from 1&2?

There is an argument to be had there perhaps.

It would depend what you thought about their respective eras.

I like Lewis's era much better, but Holmes beating Mercer, and giving Holyfield a competitive fight, does give me pause for concern!

 

Lewis didn't beat the best of his era during their primes, though. If he had beaten prime/near prime version of Holy and Tyson, I'd probably give him the nr 3 spot, but in reality he beat versions of them that would soon after lose to Ruiz and Williams.

 

Witherspoon even did about as well as Lewis did against Mercer and they fought him the same year.
In fact Mercer even seemed to admit in the post-fight interview that Witherspoon was unlucky not to get the decision.

I think Holmes's era was better than Lewis's.
Lewis's era was the era Frank Bruno finally got a world title win - from the same guy Lewis lost the belt to !
Holmes did pretty well against that guy too.

 

For my money, Spoon beat Mercer quite comfortably.

 

I think a very strong case can be made for ranking Lewis at #4 all time. As for Larry Holmes, he was a great fighter, but I can't come up with a way of ranking him above about #10 all time. I won't argue with anybody who ranks him higher. I definitely get the reasoning behind that. I doubt if I'll ever move Holyfield out of my #3 spot. His resume is top notch, in my opinion. If he had won 2 of 3 against Bowe and then had defeated Lewis in the second fight, at his advanced age, I might even have ranked him higher than 3. I still think if he hadn't been sick in the 3rd Bowe fight and the 1st Moorer fight, he would have won them both. No excuses from me, though, as I don't forgive the losses. Those three fights are why I don't consider him for higher than #3.

 

#10 is pretty low for Holmes, but I see your point about Holy. The latter is my #4, True Warrior!

 

Fair enough.

Then surely to god Holmes had to to wonders with his era?

Did Holmes even defend his title against the #1 contender?

I am honestly trying to work this out.

 

Only ones I know for (mostly) sure are Cooney was and Shavers. But add up how many former and eventual champs he beat.

 

I love Larry but Lewis' resume impressed me more. Much more actually.

 

Many a great point and summation in that lot mate!!!!

 

Maybe Shavers was nr 1 after hed blasted out Norton? But, yes, his resume is lacking in that regard, despite the many contenders he defeated.

But how many nr 1 did Lewis defend against? Holy, but then? Byrd is his Page, more or less.

 

Lets go from 35yo.

From age 35 to 39 Wlad defended the lineal title 9 times with 5 stoppages.

From 35 Holmes beat Smith, Bey and Williams (controversial for some) and then lost twice to Spinks (controversial loss in rematch for some) and was stopped by Tyson.

From 35 Holyfield had Moorer, Bean then Lewis x 2 then had a trilogy against Ruiz.

Wlad was doing pretty good with all those lineal defenses. We can say the division was weak but the late run of Holmes was aimed at easy challengers but i will grant Holyfield was fighting decent to great fighters. Foremans another matter. None of the three was the best heavyweight in the world whilst Wlad was for quite some time thereafter.

Furey was fighting a guy that hadn't lost for an eternity and was a huge physical specimen. For some strange reason i would bet quite a few would have been more impressed if they fought to a standstill and both had to come off the canvas. In reality tho it is better to beat guys comfortably than go life and death with them.

 

I can't see that at all.
Lewis's best win is probably a 36/37 old Holyfield who'd beat battered in a trilogy with Bowe 4-7 years earlier.
Ray Mercer probably rates higher on Lewis's list of wins than he does on Holmes's, and Holmes was 42 when he faced him.

 

The problem is that Lewis didn't beat kore dangerous fighters, it's not even close in fact.

Then we go on to the quality - what's Lewis best wins? In the project ran last year, posters picked Lewis top 5 wins:

1. Vitali Klitschko
2. Holyfield
3. Rahman
4. Mercer
5. Tua

Vitali is very strong win, considering Lewis being past prime and unprepared. Holyfield is a good win, but Evander was past prime so it's not as good as it might look. Then you have a bunch of good names, but are they anything special...? Rahman isn't that great and Lewis went 1-1 with him. Mercer is good win, but Louis had quite a few wins like that. Tua is... alright but nothing special.

It's also important to note that Louis beat the best fighters in the world, some of them multiple times. Lennox never fought Bowe, he only faced Evander and Tyson when the were past prime (Tyson was shot). It's not Lewis fault, but he never proved to be clearly the best.

 

Norton was the man to beat in 1978.
Shavers was "#1 contender" in 1979.
Then for most of Holmes's reign there was no clear #1 contender.
Weaver in 1980-'81, but Holmes had already defeated him in 1979.
People can talk about Page if they want, but Page lost to Berbick in 1982, Witherspoon in 1984, Bey in 1984.
Holmes beat those same guys in 1981, 1983, and 1985.

Wladimir Klitschko was actually ranked #1 contender to Lennox Lewis by Ring magazine in 2001-'02.
For what it's worth.