what would happen if you put ali 64-67in the place of 80s ali that night vs holmes?

I think the 1964-67 version of Ali would have outpointed the 1980 Holmes. It would have been very close.

 

I think Ali would win a decision but I wonder how good Holmes would have been without all those learning sparring sessions with Ali. If we could just drop the 64-67 Ali in the ring with the 80's Holmes I think Ali's speed and movement would allow him to do well but it would be a competitive fight and an exchange of jabs and right hands.....Ali's speed and lead right makes the difference

 

Ali beats holmes until he is red, white, blue and sore.... Holmes will fall in four.

Holmes was a moderately talented boxer who came into the tail end of a great era. but when he went up against other top hevayweights like spinks and tyson well the imposter was shown for what he was. Frankly the only people who survived much more than 4-7 with Ali at that point were the ones he carried and chose not to knockout like patterson and terrel

 

Ali is my GOAT Mr. Snort, but your opinion is transparently biased & unfair.

It is extremely obvious that Holmes was older, fairly long retired, & took the Tyson fight on too short notice due to letting King seduce him with cash. I still favor prime Tyson, but this is an absurd case to make, like considering 38 year old Ali, even not retired.

He was also faded by the time he fought Spinks, & deserved the 2nd decision as much as Ali did against his brother the 2nd time.

Also some he did not carry survived even at his absolute peak: Chuvalo, 15, Ali went to the hospital afterwards.

Ali UD over Holmes.

 

Ali UD

 

I know Chuvalo, he has never been dropped ever, probably the one exception. I don't think a grizzly bear could knock him out
The ease at which larry was destroyed in that fight is telling, he would never be able to take a tyson punch, not on his best day. he faded once he fought any opposition worth a damn and thats why he ducked everyone worth a damn. Larry was a hype job. Now he did have some substance, he just barely beat shavers and cooney. but the big gap in how spinks vs cooney and larry vs cooney went ought to tell you alot. Opponents that larry struggled with spinks blew threw.

When I watch larry, its just like watching a wlad fight. Its frussttrating, because if I was in the corner coaching the guy I know they'd be looking up at the ceiling on the floor.

 

Ah c'mon, Holmes is not that way, you are going to extremes.

Chuvalo likely would have been dropped or beaten to brain damage by Foreman, & on one other occasion he had a dubious "slip" ruling-but generally yes, top shelf chin.

There is a recent very detailed thread about whether Holmes ducked folks. Bottom line, sometimes, but he also often just beat the man who beat the man, & many guys could not keep winning like him to GET to him.

Homles chin was very good close to Ali's. You cannot go bv an older long retired Holmes-who still had much success for years, into his 60's after the Tyson fight. Tyson at 38 was no world beater, let's be fair here.

He beat Shavers & clearly twice, soon before his absolute prime. Cooney he clearly beat too, & Cooney was no joke then. You have a good point with Spinks vs. Cooney....Except COoney was never the same, full of drugs & undertained, after Holmes. You have to cite the other common opponents & their differential success.

So you do not even have Holmes lower top 10? Almost beat Marciano's record, was robbed in 2nd Spinks fight, champion 7 1/2 years. Yes the era & opponents inflated his success, like Rocky's did. Still even grading on a curve he was an ATG.

You act like he is some short school but Journeyman!

 

I'm a bit bemused at the confidence of people picking Ali over Holmes. My personal opinion is that Holmes would give any version of Ali a very tough evening.

 

D'oh :huh Thanks for pointing this out. I did in fact mean to type in FIVE points and not three. I've edited my post accordingly