If that's the case then why the hell was Dana avoiding Toney for so long. If there was this big premeditated conspiracy at work here he would've snatched him up right away and implemented his secret plot. Why was it instead Toney who was pursuing Dana? Your logic is completely backwards when compared to how the events actually transpired. Why did Dana initially offer him a fight with mediocre (striker) Kimbo which Toney subsequently declined? Toney asked for (wrestler) Couture, he also asked for (wrestler) Lesnar. He did so arrogantly. He got what he asked for. Dana finally accepted the fight to shut him up. Plain and simple. The only agenda he had was forcing Toney to back up his claims. Everyone keeps complaining that Toney had to face a wreslter but that's exactly what HE was aksing for. I now believe that Toney wanted a wrestler because he mistakenly thought that it would be an easy fight considering they're not typically effecient strikers. Then he could brag about the supremacy of boxing. The thing is, he didn't want Couture to wrestle him. He wanted him to trade punches. So who's the one looking for the easy fight here? He apparently wanted to box a wrestler. Breakdown. Toney first refused a fight with an average striker and instead asked for a fight with a wrestler and then complained when the wrestler actually wrestled him. And yet this is somehow some underhanded scheme by Dana? Stop it, just stop it.
No my logic is not backward b/c all i've been saying is that Dana White was counting on (hoping) James sold that fight b/c why in the world would he pay him so much if he didn't want him to sell the fight. Now, b/c James has been running his mouth about how bad MMA is for some time, Dana White would also logically have known that Toney would be selling the fight at least in part by insulting his organization with the goal being people would tune in to see if toney (a long ago boxing champ) could at all back his talk. That's basically my point and i don't know how there could be any holes in that. As far as Toney facing an MMA fighter who is primarily a striker, unless the guy was a complete novice in all other disciplines Toney was going to lose anyway - Toney's 41 w/ no mma experience, at least partially shot, serious fitness issues, has no experience boxing/striking while someone's trying to take him down, and is not a ray mercer ko artist. IMO, toney was losing to any ufc roster fighter he'd face (and badly against most) and dana white would most likely realize that. So, not that it was some debolical premeditated plan, but Dana saw it as a win/win situation. Win/win bc toney would likely get embarassed all the while brining in some new viewers and validating ufc or toney would surpirse everybody and win a fight or two and continue to bring in new viewers. Again, regardless of whether dana intially rebuffed toney, why else would he give toney 750k or more if most fighters on a card are getting a base of like 15k????
This theory of yours makes about as much sense as a restaurant owner paying some PR person a massive sum of money to advertise to the local community that his establishment's food is absolutely atrocious and the worst in the area. People will then storm in just to see just how bad it really is and hope for an upset stomach? All that Toney did from the very start was demean, degrade and disrespect the entire sport of MMA. How the hell is that promoting the fight or more importantly the sport? Why would anyone want to watch this fight after hearing Toney's extremely negative representation of MMA and what it stands for? If anything he made a farce out of it. Of course he paid Toney, was he going to do it for free? Have you noticed that Dana doesn't want him back again? If Toney's promotional efforts were so exceptional then why was he given the boot? None of your theory holds water. It was a lose/lose situationm for Dana and the UFC and many of the posts here confirm that. If Toney lost (as he did) MMA fans are told (as you've even said yourself) that he was supposed to lose anyway so it amounts to nothing. If he wins, Toney and the boxing community would then have bragging rights and we'd never hear the end of it from loud-mouthed Toney. "MMA sucks, I whooped their champion". If he didn't get the fight he would've said, "MMA sucks, their champion is ducking me". And to really drive a stake in to the heart of this debate I'll give you Toney's own words confirming exactly what I have already said. Unless Toney was under some magic mind control spell issued by Dana White, Toney made these decisions on his own. It wasn't a set-up at all as some people have been suggesting.
"boom hiccup i just knocked randy da **** out so now yall mutha****as can shut yo mouth bout' that MMA Vs. Boxing BULL**** cuz i just ****ed yo boy UP"
whatever guy u make no sense. dana paid him way more than he pays anyone (10x one of his better fighters) . if he was really worried about toney's badmouthing having an effect he would've just called him a washed up no hoper in MMA and ignored him. (for an example of how this works see the klitchkos who toney calls sissies every chance he gets - they ignore him and it doesn't effect their money). dana wouldn't enter into a situation he believed was lose/lose (tho i don't think the deal really worked out to well depending upon ppv sales). forget it dude if u don't see that
I'm not upset that you have an opinion. I just think it's way off. Besides, this conversation is kind of beat. We keep arguing in circles and repeating the same exact points. Again. Ignoring Toney (which Dana tried to do) would only offer him the golden opportunity of running around bragging that the MMA world was quaking in their boots. Dana has too much pride in himself and what he has built in the UFC to do that. His fighters wouldn't want that either. I'm not saying that Dana has lost any sleep over Toney's trash talk. I'm quite certain though that he didn't pay him to run his mouth about MMA. He could pay his own fighters to do that if he wanted. But he wouldn't because it's self-defeating for obvious reasons. What did I say that wasn't true in terms of how I described it as being a lose/lose situation? Half of it is already demonstrably true based on multiple posts here at this forum alone. The consensus is that Toney's loss was meaningless for any number of reasons. If on the other hand he had won, you know as well as I do that it would've been a massive shitstorm for the UFC. This article states that Toney has been asking for a fight in the UFC since 2002. So OBVIOUSLY Dana has been ignoring him for years and finally gave up, probably just because he was worn down by Toney's annoying persistence. It also explains that there was no devious plot or scheme at play either. http://www.secondsout.com/news?ccs=1631&cs=350942 This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected
we can agree to disagree.... but toney could've been easily ignored if it was such a lose/lose situation. No one gives much of **** what he has been saying for some years now. he's funny at times, but believe me no one takes what he says too seriously especially about mma (until dana signed him and a bunch of boxing fans jumped on it for a little while, mostly toney fans). toney hasn't been relavent in boxing since like 2006 and has since proved his lack of relevancy in a couple of bad showings. Even if Dana somehow beleived he has to 'deal with devil' and sign toney to stop the threat of toney single handedly destroying his organiztion, was there really a need to sign him for that outrageous amount?? dana is not a dumb business man and his org is particularly frugal with fighter pay. I'd say the only reason a business would pay such money would be to hopefully profit from it. the thinking behind toney making money for the org is that after toney was signed he would generate interest by getting JT and some boxing fans hyped by all his trash talk thinking this former boxing great is going to show mma how it's done. I doubt that the decision will/has paid off but again I can't buy the theory that the UFC just had to sign a nearly shot JT and pay him at least 750000 b/c Toney 'forced their hand' and they had to shut his barely relevant mouth up
He WAS ignored since 2002. You were saying that this was all part of Dana's nefarious conspiracy to wreck an aging boxer (with an even older MMA fighter?) and yet you haven't explained to me why he waited eight whole years to put it in to place if he really wanted it so badly? MMA fighters have pride too you know. They're not going to sit back and let Toney run his mouth about their sport and let him skate with that. To brush it off an say, "Well, you shouldn't take what he said seriously" is a cop out in my mind. It's bascially saying, let him take his cheap shots and don't respond. That's what Toney wanted in this fight too. "I want to fight a wrestler, but I don't want him to wrestle." And you're completely misconstruing what I said. When did I EVER say that Toney would singlehandedly detsroy MMA? What I'm saying is that he did absolutely nothing to help it. Contrary to what you had suggested that the Couture/Toney fight was going to be the best thing since sliced bread for MMA. That Dana got what he wanted and he paid Toney all of this money to mock his organization. I've never heard of a company intentionally advertising itself through publicity stunt or otherwise in a negative way. There's no point to it. It doesn't make good business sense and I already provided you with an analogy for that. Mayweather refused to back up his claims as well because he said that the UFC couldn't pay him enough. MMA fighters like to fight, just to fight. Boxers always seem to insist on a huge payday first. So they paid him to shut him up. Believe me, MMA doesn't need James Toney in order to prosper. Again at the end of your paragraph, "UFC just had to sign Toney" as if there was a sense of urgency. Dana avoided him since 2002. Toney is the one that approached him. How is that Dana's fault if another more suitable boxer (in your mind) didn't come along and make an offer? Mayweather wouldn't do it. Bernard Hopkins wouldn't so it. Toney is the one who came along so Toney it was. Who forced Toney to beg for this fight? Was it Dana or his own inflated ego?
first off, i'm not tyring to decide who is at fault or trying to demonize dana i'm just giving my opinion on what and why was toney signed for .75 mil. And as i said previously i'm not saying this was some 'nefarious' plan by dana of somesort What i've simply been saying from the start is that I'm sure Dana/the UFC wanted Toney to hype this fight or else why pay him .75 mil plus? (Again I am assuming you realize that many many fighters on the UFC roster will earn a base salare of like 10-40k per fight. Maybe I shouldn't have assumed you realized that?) Why would they pay one fighter over 10x what they pay some of some of their better fighters if they didn't think it would be either immediately or long term profitable? There is no other rational reason. Now, since dana/ufc knew toney would hype this by calling his org/fighters bums and sissies, they would obviously tolerate that as the way this fight is going to be hyped It makes no sense to think that dana/ufc signed toney just because he has been running his gums about the org since 2002 and trying to get a fight. The first reason that this is illogical is because he got paid .75 mil plus. Toney cannot get that type of purse in boxing right now (why he's here) and the ufc just doesn't give away big money so I doubt it was just cuz they want to shut toney's mouth up. Despite what you say, IMO it was easy to ignore Toney and Toney was no threat to the UFC. As you said, they were ignoring him since 2002. Boxing fans have been largely ignoring toney since 2005/2006 or so. No one in their right mind took toney seriously as an MMA fighter (though a couple of clips had me fooled to thinking he was at least trying). No one in their right mind took him seriously in boxing recently either (he's been calling out a bunch of 'sissies' there too and no response). Toney was no threat to the UFC that forced them to finally give him a lucrative deal after all these years of asking and a lot of years of no relevancy. The UFC /dana did it in hopes they'll make somehting off of the **** talk this washed up but still at times entertaining ex champ would bring and for whatever reason they thought the time was now. If this were a relevant prime (or near prime) boxing title holder/champ/even legit contender who was continually bashing mma fighters and begging to be given a shot at someone, and people were actually paying attenton to the talk, then your argument would make sense. Dana would want to prove something about mma and shut this guy up and dana would have to pay him good money to do so. But none of this rationale applies to a 41 year old, borderline obese, poor work habbits, no mma experience, at least partially shot, no 1 punch ko, no contender james toney. All Dana had to do was ignore him or call him a clown that no one takes seriously and who is lucky to get his garbled interviews on Youtube. Dana usually has no problem taking that route. And this time when dana would say Toney is a no hoper who probably shouldn't even be boxing, he would be right. Certainly there was no need to throw nearly a million at Toney just because dana wanted his butt kicked for all of the trash talk. (Toney will be lucky to be fighting zach page for 50 k in his next fight)
I think you're confusing hype with denigration. A few direct questions. 1). Why did Dana avoid Toney for roughly 8 years if he just had to have him as you had said in order to validate MMA? 2). If Dana wanted to set Toney up for an easy fall, why did he first offer him an average striker in Kimbo Slice to fight? An offer refused by Toney. 3). How did Dana coerce Toney in to begging for this fight? Toney wouldn't have been a part of this fight unless he wanted to be. It's clear that he wanted it a whole lot more than Dana ever did. 4). How does it benefit an MMA fighter to avoid Toney and his outlandish claims thus creating the false perception that they're ducking him? A perception that Toney surely would've ran with had it been the case. That propaganda benefits boxing, not MMA if this is a public relations battle. The Klitshco brothers have tried to ignore him and now they're largely known as the Bitchko brothers for doing so if you read posts online. Was that part of their master plan too? Pretty stupid plan if so. 5). Toney has been trash-mouthing the entire sport of boxing as well saying that no one will give him a real fight and that the other boxers are bascially pantywaists for dodging him. Do you believe that boxing has been paying him to do that as well? If so, to what benefit? 6). If not Toney, which boxer would've been more suitable for this fight in your mind? Keep in mind that he also has to be willing to partake in it. How is it Dana's faulty if Toney is the one boxer to make him this offer? 7). How is it Dana's fault that Toney showed up to fight out of shape? Age has nothing to do with it. Couture was ripped at a more advanced age. Who's fault is that? Again, Toney is the one boxer who made the offer to Dana. If you don't like it, why not point the finger at which boxer you feel would be more suited and hold his feet to the fire? Otherwise don't expect Dana to work miracles. It's not Dana's job to run around looking for the ideal boxer to fight in the UFC just to please you and others like you. It's incumbent upon the challenger to step up and make the offer to Dana. To finish, Dana himself has said that he gave Toney this fight in order to shut him up. You disagree. Why should I believe you over him when these were HIS thoughts and words and not yours? Would you appreciate someone else deciding for you what you really meant when you said something as if they were a mind reader? I believe that you could make the exact opposite argument. If all of this trash talk was to hype up a boxer vs. MMA fervor and introduce new viewers to MMA, how do you figure it worked? It turned out to be one of the most boring and one-sided fights in UFC history. A total snorefest. If that was the first MMA fight that I ever saw I'd say, "THIS is what all of the fuss was about"? All of that trash talking build up which eventually lead to such a horrible fight only offered up a huge letdown in terms of entertainment value. Epic fail. The only logical explanation for why this fight took place is the one that I have offered until you can adequately answer the aforementioned questions.
I'm the heavyweight champion of the world.. Randy... Canon printer... you know... uniden telephone anyday of the week... this is what I do... nickelodeon... anybody pink comforter you know... I'm James Toney... piano classes and bubbles... no joke homie bring it on... remote control wedding ring... I told Dana ceiling fan wireless mouse ... can't nobody beat me ... extension cord power strip homey anytime ... set your alarm clock by the moon cause I ain't going nowhere... dirty clothes clogged up toilet POTNA!
your simple dude...sure wanted him to put down mma...because when toney lost...it would make boxing look all the worst. And he knew toney would lose..given the fact that he has totally a the wrong style to do well in mma...a guy like klitshcko would be a threat..toney isnt even a real heavy...and his damaged. why do you think dana never took guys like cintron up on the offer to fight.