What year was Ali's 70's peak ?

I also think he was great in those 5, but he gassed badly and didn't recover. Of course, Frazier had more than a little to with that. But seeing how bad Ali had looked against Bonavena in the previous fight, it is hard to know if it also had something to do with not having recovered all he could recover yet. Against Bonavena he obviously hadn't.

Ps. And not the friggin' cop out about Bonavena being awkward. Boxers like Ellis and Patterson had some of their best nights against Ringo. Ali had never looked as bad before - not against Jones, not against Mildenberger, not against anyone - and wouldn't look as bad again until he met Young. EDIT: Well, Norton, of course. But he showed the ability to frustrate other very good/great boxers. Bonavena didn't.

 

I agree entirely. Doesn't mean we have to start fantasizing to excuse his losses though.

 

Fantasizing that a lay-off hurts ones abilities? Well, then Jeffries, Dempsey and Tyson are some other benificiaries of this fantasy.

 

I never claimed it didn't, though the decline people say exists on film certainly is fantasy.

Truer than you think.

 

It certainly isn't.

It's pretty clear Tyson never was the same again. He was still very good, but had lost some ability and, especially, some stamina. I remember him saying even before the Holyfield fight that he wasn't the same after prison. I wouldn't agree that it was as dramatic a decline as some others think, but there was a decline.

 

Ali was never a complete fighter, and it began to show when his engine started slowing down. No doubt the layoff and inactivity have to do with it. It's not an excuse, just an explanation.

 

This.

I consider Ali alot like a heavyweight Roy Jones-A brilliant man, and the most physically gifted heavyweight of all time. He perfectly tailored his boxing style to his athletic gifts and his smarts, and when he had full use of those, he was nigh unbeatable. When the gifts started to leave him, and his strategies began to become simpler, The Greatest became mortal. And soon, circa the Young fight, very, very vulnerable.

 

74' I think. Ali in the first Frazier fight did not clinch as well or counter punch as well.

 

I think Ali looked just as good in the rematch with Norton as he did in his rematch with Frazier. So, I think his best 1970's self could be either '73 or '74. In the Norton rematch, Ali looked awfully good for 5 rounds before tiring. Even though he didn't tire out against Frazier in '74, I think that had a lot to do with styles. Norton was coming into his own as a fighter, whereas Frazier had clearly lost a step or two.

 

Ignore the child. He gets sensitive when the subject of Ali AKA The Greatest comes up.

 

1972.

 

Well He had a better fight against Foreman than he did Frazier in FOTC but I think he was peak for fight 1, I think his best victory's were over Liston 1 and Foreman. He did not beat a prime Frazier in fight 2 and 3. I think he had trouble with pressure guys like Norton and Frazier and did not have the punch to back them up. Frazier had a quick release, Norton was a rhythm breaker. Style issues for Ali

 

That's a good way of putting it.