What years cover Jack Johnson's best?How often was he in top shape in it?

Hard to judge. I think he was at his prime against Langford, not at his peak though - and less experienced. I´d say from roughly 1905/6 up to the Battling Jim Johnson fight? Jeffries beeing his peak performance.

 

That's about right,I think.

 

I'd say 1907 was the beginning of it, KOing a shot Fitzsimmons, Lang, and Flynn.

 

Prime. Not peak. Peak is when you are at your very, very best, for Johnson I think it´s from Burns to Jeffries, while in your prime you still may improve up to your peak and slide a bit after but you are still close to your peak. I think Johnson improved after Langford, gathered experience, refined his game and got even more confidence - if that is possible, I don´t think there ever was a fighter as confident as him. So, no I don´t think that Johnson would beat those men with the the exception of Vitali, perhaps. At his peak I think he is competative with all of them and depending on ruleset, meaning his, should be fav over all of them but perhaps Lewis.

 

I have a feeling his Jeffries fight may represent the absolute best of Johnson, other fights he likely wouldn't be in tip top shape for as he'd see them as none challenges. Jeffries would have been the superfight and seen as a threat, a great fighter, a hugely political fight and he would have been slighted by the public's treatment of him. Then again he was 32 at this time, we have to also ask which version was the better, the fast hungry 185lb version or the muscular 210lbs version?

 

Its all speculation without footage, the thing is Johnson was probably really unbeaten from 1901 onwards, given the controversy surrounding the Hart loss and he could have been at his best in his youth when straining for success. 30lbs of solid muscle and not being literally hungry is going to typically make a fighter better though

We also have the mystery of the black dyamite crews stating there were more fights between them than we have records of. Was it Jeanette or McVey that said he fought Johnson a ridiculous number of times? This would also mean the Jeanette/Mcvey were much more experienced than is recorded. If this holds up Johnson may have a deeper resume than we realise and his early threat to Jeffries was more significant than it first looks at face value

The best answer to the question is likely to be given by our own McVey and I'd be interested to here his thoughts/knowledge regarding the above speculation

 

I think PP has the right of it here, A faster johnson versus a more muscular, heftier version. I'd say it depends on what kind of fight he'd be in for. Against someone like Louis or Ali i'd say the CW version would be a better match. Against a Foreman, I'd opt for more LBs.

 

Johnson said he was at his best against Jeffries and ,that his weight for the fight 208lbs was his optimum weight.
He was undoubtedly in good shape for Burns , whom he said gave him considerably more competition than Jeffries.
I think the problem you are going to have ,establishing his prime/peak, is that he went in and out of shape ,rather like Langford ,who , was often looking like a black barrel in his heavyweight years.
I beleive Johnson was a very late developer, he struggled to get meaningful matches when he was on the way up ,and then blotted his copybook by not making sure he beat Hart ,which I think was well within his compass. I don't see how that can be doubted really,if we look at how comprehensively he thrashed Burns , who was Hart' s master, and O Brien's too,which bolsters my view that Jack came in against O Brien woefully out of shape, cynically exploiting the fact that O Brien had to ko him to get the title, highly unlikely given O Brien's lack of real power.

I think the last time Johnson was in top shape,and focused , was against Jeffries.

Determining when was the start of his peak is considerably trickier.

Johnson haters will say excuses are being made ,fans will say he was seldom in really good ring shape because of his life style, and the pressures brought to bear on him.
I say, good luck finding the truth, you will need it.:good

 

Fighters prepare for fights differently given the opponent no? For example Manny Pacquiao's conditioning plan changes based on his needs for every individual fight. While obviously this isn't possible with an auld tyme fight schedule, it makes sense for heavyweights to want to pack on weight differently given their age and opponent.

Johnson "in shape" is a hard thing for me to nail because he just looks so much better than his comp. Some times he'd look like this:

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but he could also look like this:

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