What's Rocky Marciano's record if he fought Muhammad Ali's opponents ?

Exactly. And it would have been interesting to see how things play out w/o Al Weill. There is no way Rocky was staying with him. And sometimes in this sport, a new manager likes bringing in a trainer he likes. So how is Rocky in later years w/o Goodman?

Pretty big subtractions in my book and on par with his bad back.

 

I was looking at a couple of posts regarding Rocky’s stamina/pressure/willpower. You get the Piti hope. Didn’t Frazier have all of this. Just an example. Why do people think Rocky trained any harder than other world class athletes capable of fighting 15 rounds, 3 minutes a round. And the reason I mention Frazier is would Rocky still be the same with a huge fearsome puncher putting it on him. By that o mean pressure, more pressure and the occasional huge bomb or two at him. Would he still be able to fight 3 minutes in the 15th round throwing bomb after bomb. At for example. Liston, Foreman. I personally doubt it.

 

Well, he's not retiring undefeated that's for damn sure.

60's
-Cooper: Rocky KO within 5 in a very exciting slugfest with both guys covered in blood.
-Jones: Jones was a slippery cagey guy who was hard to stop and had good movement, so he might be able to pull a Lastarza, but I don't see him winning. Either Rocky stops him late or wins a UD.
-Chuvalo: Grueling fight in the early to mid rounds, but Chuvalo is basically target practice after rounds 9 helpless against the non-stop onslaught.
-Patterson: Again I favor Rocky, but it's close to a 50/50 fight given Patterson's amazing speed and ability.
-Liston: Liston absolutely demolishes Rocky by KO within 4-5 rounds tops. Horrible matchup.
-Folley: He gives Rocky some problems early with his tricky abilities, but Rocky manages to get close and drops him in the 5th, then finishes him in the 6th.
-Terrel: This is a winnable fight for Rocky, but potentially an upset. Very tall guy with a pesky jab and annoying tendency to spam clinches or go into his shell. I think Rocky wins, but he'd have a hell of a hard time getting inside and Terrel has a slim chance to pull it off.


70's

-Quarry: This is a tough matchup. Quarry is a veteran boxer with good counterpunching skills, inside fighting, and an iron chin. He's a bit outgunned here. The danger for Rocky is like Quarry, he might get cut and stopped even if he's winning and Quarry has superior ring IQ. Still, I'd favor Rocky to win at least 6/10.
-Bonavena: Rocky UD in a thrilling brawl.
-Frazier: FOTC gets dropped and hurt early, but his hand speed and superior defense make the difference. He takes over in the late rounds and drops Rocky after slicing him to ribbons and TKO's him in the 11th.
-Norton: Rocky has trouble early but eventually breaks Norton down and KO's him by the 8th.
-Bugner: Very frustrating, similar to the Terrel fight. I don't think Bugner wins, but slim chance of an upset with his spoiling tactics.
-Ellis: Could be challenging on paper, but shouldn't be as difficult as the Charles or Walcott fights.
-Frazier 2: 50/50 fight, could go either way. Very dangerous fight.
-Foreman: Rocky is bounced off the canvas multiple times and stopped within 3.
-Wepner: Absolute blood both, but Rocky gets the job done within 10.
-Lyle: Give Rocky a rough time, but he just doesn't have the tools other than a puncher's chance and slugging, so Rocky wins with moderate difficulty after getting off the floor.
-Young: Rocky UD, his non stop suffocating pressure is the perfect counter for Young's passive style.
-Frazier 3: It depends on how much wear and tear Rocky has at this point, I'd probably favor Frazier.
-Leon Spinx: Again, depends on how worn out Rock is. Leon absolutely might pull the upset with his high energy busy style.
-Leon 2: A motivated Rocky might be able to win given Leon's lack of focus. Or it could become a very ugly mud fight if Rocky is too past it.
-Berbick: Brutal stoppage loss for Rocky.
-Holmes: Another brutal stoppage loss.

 

Most of those bouts are very difficult to call.

I think he could beat Liston...he had more heart.
But I would make Liston a slight favourite.

I think Marciano-Frazier is a 50-50

Holmes is a 51-49 over Rocky in my book.

I think he probably beats all of the rest.......




Except for George.
I can't even imagine how Rocky would go about defeating 1973 George Foreman.

Down goes Rocky ! Down goes Rocky ! Down goes Rocky !



I would give Rocky a 10 % chance of beating Foreman



So, all in all he probably ends up with three or four losses.


Still, you can only fight the fighters who exist and are active in your era.

 

Norton and Holmes are not "a lot of ATGs and contenders." And I would like to see an exact punch count.

Even at lower weights, when a fighter gets up to 70 a round, it is considered a great feat. very few heavies are capable of doing so, and vanishingly few in the 15th.

 

If you seen Rocky 4, with how Rocky beat Drago, I can see Marciano doing the same thing to Foreman, but Foreman will not last for 15 rounds. The Rock finally puts him to sleep in round ten imo.

 

Why do people think that throwing 70 punches in the 15 th is something that only Rocky could do. Is he the only fighter who trains hard?

 

Loses to Patterson, too.

 

The timeline alone would be impossible for him, given his style.

It is not really a question of whether he would have beaten the later opponents.

He is either long retired by then, or if he is not, then he is just a stepping stone for up and coming fighters.

 

So we're comparing a fictional movie to how a real boxing match would play out ? Ok.

Just for your information in real life Dolph Lundgren sparred with Sylvester Stallone, and hit him so hard his heart almost stopped and he needed to be rushed to hospital.

As I said fictional..... Marciano gets brutalized by Foreman in 3 rounds.

 

As several have touched upon, I'd see the real difference coming when Rocky comes into his 30's. If he has 3,5 years inactivity, like Ali did, that won't help either.

 

If he had followed Ali's timeline, he'd a have the rematch against Frazier at the age he was for his last fight in real life, this after having much tougher comp than he actually did have, and then he'd have faced Foreman, Lyle, Bugner, Frazier again, Young, Norton and Shavers. Wouldn't be much of him left to face Holmes three years later, I reckon.

 

If he instead is 29 for his first title fight, as he was in real life, he's 39 when he comes around to Foreman...

So either way we look at it, it doesn't look very rosy for him. 22-25 years old for the fights against Liston and Patterson, Chuvalo, Cooper Mildenberger, Terrell, Folley or 35-41 for Quarry x 2, Bonavena, Frazier x 3, Ellis, Norton x 3, Bugner x 2, Foreman, Lyle, Shavers etc.

I don't think it's very far fetched to say that he wouldn't have a flattering record during these circumstances. Ali's 10 first title fights at age 29-32 look much, much more manageable for Rocky, though.

 

Let's say in the multi- verse Ali was never born , and Marciano was put in his place.
I see Marciano beating everyone Ali beat until Charles "Sonny " Liston .
That's where the losses start.
If Marciano faced Liston, he'd lose. If he faced him twice, he'd lose twice.
Marciano probably would be ok until he faced Terrell. Who possibly could nullify Marciano with his size advantages and holding.
He'd be ok again until Frazier, that's a loss.
It's very possible, and more than likely Marciano's career would be in a steep nose dive by this time. His aggressive brawling tactics would really began to take its toll on his body by the time he faced Frazier at the time Ali faced him in FOTC. So a few unexpected losses probably happen.
Marciano more than likely wouldn't have anything left by the time Foreman wins the championship.
And should be retired.

 

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