What's the best argument against FMJ being the greatest?

So you favoured Cotto going in?

Personally I'm so sick of this hindsight bull****. I remember the talk about the fight beforehand, and although it was clear that Martinez was past his best he still was the favourite, but now Cotto hardly gets any credit for easily beting Martinez.

 

Sugar Ray Robinson's career is a pretty good argument against Floyd being the greatest, as is Henry Armstrong's, as is Ezzard Charles's, as is Roberto Duran's, as is Harry Greb's, as is [carries on listing examples until getting bored]

 

I love the completely unreasonable comparison where you're comparing the best wins of a boxer who started at 130 to one of the best ever Welterweights at 154lbs, way above Mayweather's best weight. It'd be like saying which Ray Leonard opponent would beat X fighters competition at light heavyweight

That aside it's perfectly conceivable either Hearns or Benitez could lose at 154 to one of Alvarez, DLH or Cotto. Benitez should have lost to Bruce Curry and lost to Moore, Hilton and Hamsho. Hearns was starched by Barkley, it's easily conceivable he could get starched by Alvarez or DLH. Especially as he tires down the stretch.

 

While I do agree it's probably an unfair comparison to talk about a H2H between a legit WW and a guy who started at 130, these kind of threads invite it. When someone is calling Floyd the GOAT, not one of the greatest, but THE GREATEST, you can beat your ass he's going to be judged against each and every fighter and against each and every criteria for greatness... and rightly so.

 

No one favoured Cotto going in. And while Martinez had injuries and been past his best it was partly how fast Cotto started and how good technically he was. I think not having to drain to a lower weight made Cotto fresher. Martinez showed some good moments in that bout so he wasn't completely done.

Really no one does this with Lamottas win over Cerdan and Cerdan had the much worse injury after Lamotta illegally fouled him.

 

No he was not

 

In his prime he was. If they were the same size RJJ would beat Floyd

 

"In his prime" " he would he could fly" sounds like the histories of prime Tyson BY Tyson fanboys.
Roy jones was a super athlete but he had crappy chin . in the pure boxing skill department floyd is clearly better and has a much better chin. Mayweather overall had a better pack

 

And Robinson's KO over LaMotta is hailed as a masterpiece, but that's just the kind of performance that would be discounted today since LaMotta had known issues making weight and hadn't looked good since winning the title.

 

Not really Roy barely lost a round 15 years before he slipped. Either his chin declined or he had the best defense of all time, take your pick

Roy makes Floyd look slow.

 

No of them. He was so fast so barelly could be touched in his chin but his jaw was always crap.
when he started losing speed and reflexes got exposed. It is not a speed competition. Floyd was better overall more complete fighter

 

Nunn lmao

 

No he wasn't, he just had better fundamentals. Jones had far better left hook, far better combinations, more P4P power and could do things in the ring Floyd couldn't hope to do. If they were the same size Floyd would lose

 

Floyd probably would knock him out

 

We're not going to agree on this. I can only repeat:

Cotto had good wins coming in to the fight and would perform well for another three years, at the age of 35. Martinez was the favourite going in, although all the issues you bring up were well known, and he was completely dominated.

I don't think it would have made any real difference whether the fight with Floyd was held at 147 or 154. But Cotto would have to drain more than Floyd to make 147 lbs (at 154 he probably only needed to drain a couple of pounds) so if anything 154 was slightly better for him.

Cotto was the younger man and if anything closer to his physical prime. I saw no real signs of age in him at that time, while Floyd was generally even more conservative in his output and aggression than before his lay-off.

Had this been been a close fight (I just rewatched it and there's nothing close about it), yes, then I can see that you might wonder if maybe it could have gone just a little bit different when Cotto was still undefeated. But Mayweather controlled the action in his typical fashion and left no doubt about who the better man was, despite looking like the older fighter.