What's the best argument against FMJ being the greatest?

Haha

He was the lineal champion in 4 divisions! He achieved #1 ranking in every division he fought in, spare for junior welter. He was literally almost never not the #1 in the division he competed in.

 

I typed Canelo instead of Cotto.

I meant that fighting Martínez was an opportunistic move by Cotto.

That’s my honest opinion.

I’ve just edited my post.

Regarding the Martínez fight, like I’ve said to Bokaj, I can’t remember the consensus on here. But after seeing the Murray fight, I knew Martínez was done.

After the Cotto fight, we never saw him again. He’s toyed with the idea of coming back over the years, but he’s kept cancelling them because he’s not healthy enough.

I don’t give Cotto much credit at all for the win.

 

Imagine if these folks were alive in the 40's/50's/etc. Sugar Ray would have been fighting a bunch of overmatched bums that everyone knew he was going to beat and therefore don't matter. And my god, all the names he did NOT fight. Just, wow. He ducked a lot apparently. That's not to mention him never facing Charley Burley and not truly facing the top black competition of his time. Or that he was said many times to "stack a fight" with contractual stipulations in his favor. And he even lost a round here and there! We are talking about the mighty Sugar Ray here! With how much ya'll be talking down Floyd with unmatchable emphasis, I'm glad you all know this and are consistent therefore post these same points repeatedly whenever Ray is mentioned. Oh, you don't? But you'll write up paragraphs about how NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO RATE THE COTTO WIN HIGHLY OR MAYBE EVEN AT ALL BECAUSE IT HAPPENED 2 YEARS LATER THAN I PERSONALLY WANTED!!!

 

Well, at least you responded and stuck to your guns.

Opportunistic? Absolutely. That doesn't play a factor for me. Bigger business draws always prey on opportunity in this sport. And that is not a "this generation" thing, either.

 

That’s fair enough.

It’s a dangerous game.

I could just never celebrate him becoming the MW champ.

 

Cerdan won the title from a washed-up Zale, he then lost it to LaMotta after injuring his right arm so bad in the first round that he couldn't use it. Robinson won it from a drained LaMotta who had looked bad in his last title defence. Wasn't Robinson a real MW champ either?

 

Robinson fought many times at MW and even fought Maxim at LHW.

You’re entitled to your opinion.

I could never celebrate Cotto beating an injured Martinez who was never able to fight again afterwards.

 

A mid fight injury sullies a win? Since when? Especially in a fight LaMotta was winning.

Robinson beat LaMotta whilst the smaller man 4 times... Yes, that win is a Great win. The Dauthuille fight was a FOTY, against a man who'd already beaten him, LaMotta stopped him. It's hardly a put down in a career sense.

 

Maybe it's just me, but I find the setting of catchweights for any Championship bouts quite ridiculous.

Cotto never once fought or defended the Middleweight Championship without tampering with the 160 limit.

I find the fact he was also considered the Lineal Champ on that basis, even more absurd.

 

It’s outrageous.

 

I think so. I think Cerdan, LaMotta and Robinson would have thought so, too.

 

It was in the first round and, yes, beating a one-armed opponent isn't the same as beating someone who has the use of both his arms.

I think Robinson put on a great performance, that wasn't the point. It was well known that LaMotta had problems making weight, Robinson even devised his fight plan after it I've heard, and Jake's performances going in to the fight weren't great.

For me, I can acknowledge that that wasn't the best version of LaMotta and still give credit to Robinson for a great performance. The two aren't mutually exclusive. That's my point.

 

Given that LaMotta gave him the injury, it's a poor excuse.

I'm not denying this, but implying "Robinson wasn't a MW champ" because of the reasons you gave are wrong. He beat a fresh, healthy LaMotta 4 times, whilst smaller. He already proved he was better, he just took the belt from him and proved it again.

 

Ffs, I'm not implying Robinsoin wasn't MW champion.

I think Cerdan was a MW champion despite beating a washed-up Zale, I think LaMotta was a MW champion despite injuring Cerdan when throwing him off in a clinch in the first round, I think Robinson was a MW champion despite beating a drained LaMotta that was nearing the end of his career. That's my bleeding point. You become champion by beating the champion, no matter what can be said about the current champion's shape.

The thing about catch weights I don't like, though.

 

Do you know any good boxing discord groups I could join?