Whats the best 'Bareknuckle' book?

Pugilistica is the best book on that epoch, obviously. But it's been out of print for over a century. Among modern books, Bob Mee's "Bare Fists" is the obvious choice on general overview of bareknuckle history.

 

I cant offer anything on recent publications, although, "The Prize Ring", by Bohun Lynch 1925, has fantastic color prints inside. I had once been in possession of the 5 volume set of Boxiana, 1823, and 3 volume Pugilistica 1880, which, regretfully I auctioned. In agreeance with Senya13, Pugilistica remains outstanding, as the wording in Boxiana becomes tedious and tangled. I suggest a later reprinted edition of Pugilistica be purchased. For the records of the day, Fistiana is unsurpassed.

 

Fistiana is a mess, similar to earlier editions of Ring Record Book, or even worse.

5-volume set of Boxiana can't be dated 1823. Even Jon Bee's 4th volume was printed in 1824, and 4th and 5th volumes by Egan were out in 1828 and 1829 respectively. I saw a 5-volume set auctioned at eBay some time ago, but I was out of money and it went for over $1.2K I think; the price at Abebook ($7.5K and higher) being too outrageous even considering their rarity.

 

My apollogies Senya13.. 1828 is the correct date. I purchased the books via Spencer,Scott,Sandilands, in East Malvern, Victoria, Australia around 1993-`94, for the sum of AU$1000.....I spent AU$200 having the leather bounds repaired, thus outlaying AU$1,200 for the set... This may have equated to US$700 in the end..

I know the name, address and phone number of the recipient, if you wish to question the authenticity of myself having been in possession of the books.....

 

Fights for the Championship,compiled from Bells Life and Boxiana,but it will set you back a few bob. Senya also has a copy.

 

I'm not questioning anything, just pointing out the dates.

I wish they added Boxiana to either google books or internet archive texts... There was one small Canadian company that re-printed the first three volumes of Boxiana, and I once attempted to work out a deal of buying the 2nd and 3rd volumes from them, but the communication went so slowly that when we almost agreed, I was out of money. In any case, I'm especially curious about Jon Bee's volume. From what I read he wrote less about fights themselves (some questioned he attended prize fights at all as journalist), and more about fighters' personalities, gossips, etc.

 

I know someone who has Fistania and Boxiana, and offered them to me to re-search for his project. However the project is HUGE, and will redefine Box rec. I had to pass.

 

Re-define boxrec? What did they mean? Considering boxrec has over 1.2M bouts entered and growing every minute, it's hard to compete with that. Unless they want to compete in quality (correct data backed up by primary sources), but that's even harder to do than in numbers.

 

I'm too lazy to look up examples. Here's an exract from Famous Fights Past & Present N61, page 138:


And now for a few of the errors, picked at random, with which " Fistiana" abounds. Let us take up the edition of 1868. and turn to page 134. We have here-and it is the same in every edition-a list of the Champions of England, from 1719 to 1868. Looking down the list we find opposite the year 1790 the name " Ryan (Big Ben)." There never was a Champion of England named Ryan, and this should be "Bryan, or Brain (' Big Ben Brain ')," of Bristol. On page 50 we have " Greeting, bn. by Tom Pipes twice," and on looking for Pipes to find particulars, we discover no such name, but on searching we see on page 98, " Piper, Tom, b. Greeting twice, 1733." Of Greeting I shall have more to say further on. On page 1, in Dick Acton's record, we read, " bn. by Kenrick (B)," and " b. Kenrick, 25gs., 35m., 32r.," etc., etc. Turning to page 71, under " Kendrick " (there is only one " Kenrick " in the K's, and he fought one battle, in 1862), we see that it was " Massa Kendrick," the Black, who beat and was beaten by Dick Acton. On page 43 we find that " Ford, R.," was " bn. by Western," but on looking for the latter name, we cannot find it, though we discover " Weston, Jack, bn. by Ford." No trace of any "Western," or "Weston," having beaten Ford. The name " Greeting " should be " Gretting." I could multiply these instances indefinitely, but I have pointed out sufficient to prove that "Fistiana" is not the marvel of accuracy that some of our correspondents would have us believe. I know many people swear by " Frstiana," and I have almost offended some of them because I dared to question the accuracy of some old edition that had been in their family for fifty years; and not only questioned it, but proved beyond the possibility of a doubt that the oracle they were prepared to swear by was inaccurate and unreliable. They did not want their faith in "Fistiana" shattered so rudely, and resented my exposing the clay feet of their golden idol. '' Where ignorance is bliss 'twere folly to be wise," and they would far rather have remained in blissful ignorance of " Fistiana's" faults, failings, and falsity than have had their faith in the work they and those before them regarded as the only reliable and trustworthy authority on matters connected with the " old timers " so ruthlessly shattered and dispelled.


The author, Harold Furniss compiled his own set of records, which, although far from perfect also, can compete with Fistiana.

 

Seyna,

It is estimates that Box rec has about 10% of the matches out there. This project is HUGE, and will significantly increase box rec's data base. PM me if you want in on the research, but understand its going to require a lot of work, and the top guy in charge deserves the credit for organizing it.

 

Naw, I simply don't see that possible to improve from scratch over what has been done at boxrec. You see, when I was invited to join boxrec team I specifically asked if I'm going to have obligations, or I would be able to research at my own pace and the things I'm interested in, and only after confirmative answer I joined. This is a hobby and I don't want it become a job where I am told when and what to do.

I consider all those estimations suspicious, to say the least, without having some explanation of how it was calculated. Say, boxing has been popular for the last 120 years * 365 days = 43,800 days. If it's only 10% then 100 * 1,200,000 / 10 = 12,000,000 bouts have been fought in the last 120 years. That means 274 bouts/day on average, which is BS if you ask me.

 

Senya, I really enjoy the return of serve, its a good deal of positivity. I purchased Fistiana from Jerome Shochet in the mid `90s also. Its another of my books having been auctioned off.

 

Most cards have several matches on them, and most box rec resutls only report a 1/3 of the under card reuslts, say pre 1950. There is a lot out there.