What's the Classic opinion: could B-Hop really move up and defeat Haye?

Hope to God that's not what you thought I actually meant. :huh

 

...Of course not. Haye would at least see the distance.

 

I wouldn't judge Hopkin's too harshly off his last performance. Dominating one that I didn't give whats his name a round in, even round was the best I could give him.

I'd be pretty gutted too if I missed out on a 10-15 million dollar payday against an easy opponent in a fight 16 years in the making if not more.

So, yeah. Hopkin's would definitely be more "up" for a Haye match then he was against whats his name. :dead

 

Hopkins could have knocked "whats his name" out in a round, I still wouldn't give him a prayer against a 6'3 athletic Heavyweight who hits like a mule.

Let's just say though, if Hopkins was to pull of the impossible, it'd certainly establish him as the best fighter of the decade in my judgment.

 

You're aware that a current SMW by the name of Lolenga Mock had Haye down and then on baby deer legs via a shot to the temple a few years back?

Haye needed a premature stoppage to pull his ass out of that fire that even his avid fans booed loudly.

Lets throw in a 190 pound cruiserweight by the name of Carl Thompson being the only man to beat David Haye as of now. Remember how old The Cat was? A few months shy of 40.

So one - You do not have to be young to compete against Haye, age is important of course but not definitive.

Two - You do not have to be a large fighter since his most glaring weaknesses have been exposed by smaller men and only smaller men.

You're insane if you don't think a 185-190 pound Nard' could at least have some serious success in a match with Haye, regardless of him winning said fight. A fighter like Bernard, savvy as he is, is not going to take a fight that he feels he can't at least be competitive in at this stage in his career.

 

Here's a comparison that might not go down too well.

Cassius Clay, before he becomes champion by beating Sonny Liston, was knocked down by a left hook curtosey of Henry Cooper. It was a good shot, Cassius was badly hurt and was clearly hurt when he went back to his corner. Myths aside, would you ever believe that this same man would be taking shots from Foreman, Frazier, and Shavers without wilting? Of course not. Fighters improve, they get more experiance as they get older.

The stoppage to Carl Thompson was more a result of fatigue than anything. Haye was beating the living **** out of him and ended up punching himself out, woefully unaware of how tough Thompson had been shown to be throughout his career. He'll never make the same mistake again as he took it as a learning experience and moved on a professional fighter. You'll be hard pressed to find one great fighter throughout recent times who didn't come unstuck as they were coming up through the ranks.

Am I to give Hopkins a chance against a dynamic Heavyweight like Haye based on things that had happened years ago? Absolutely not. Hopkins hasn't stopped anyone in a long time, and he isn't getting any younger. You mad valid points, but I refuse to concede that Hopkins has any chance in a fight with David Haye. The size disparity is great, Haye has faster hands, and his power is discombobulating. It'd be a mismatch, and Hopkins won't ever take the fight. In my judgment.

 

Issue here is that Haye's chin hasn't improved as Ali's did. He fought Monte Barret how long ago again? Another ancient fighter who managed to hurt Haye. Let me know when he starts taking shots from some of the best left hookers of all time and the premiere HW puncher of all time and then we'll agree the comparison is even remotely valid, between Ali and Haye.

Also, Haye hasn't shown an improvement in stamina my opinion. How IS his stamina going to be better now that he's almost 20 pounds heavier then he was against Maccarinelli?

The closest comparison I can make to a Haye opponent and Hopkin's is when Haye fought Ismail Abdoul a little over 3 years ago now. You can preach to me about Haye improving but this was far, FAR more recent then the Mock and Thompson fights.

Ismail Abdoul fought a extremely negative fight, as he's defensive minded, has a great chin and is a spoiler. He went the distance with Haye quite easily in the near past.

Who's Abdoul remind you of?

 

:good Fair enough. Good points.

I didn't suggest his stamina had improved, only that he'd learned to pace himself and knows his limits. He won't be going out there trying to bomb a world class fighter out in a round again, because he's learned from his experience with Thompson. That said, your post was good enough to make me second guess my own reasoning.

 

Thank you, Addie. I really appreciate that. You made me doubt mine as well.

Timings the way to beat speed, and Hopkin's is still a master at that. If he could catch Calzaghe flush in the first well enough to knock him down and tag him as clean several times over, I'm imagining he can catch Haye clean. Knock him out? Doubtful. But Calzaghe if nothing else is fast. Very fast.

Haye voiced disappointment in the post fight interview after facing Abdoul. He's just never been in there with any real boxers, any spoilers.

He's been put in front of guys he can bang out. Sure he's shown mobility, good boxing and an improved ability to pace myself but my question is who has he beaten that isn't made to order for him?

Only guy I can think of, again, is the definition of a spoiler in Abdoul, with all of his 18 losses with only one late fight TKO loss.

I just think Nard' could frustrate him to no end, and when Haye's never had a real learning experience in there against a crafty master, something suprising could happen.

Also, Haye would have to drain himself down to some catchweight for this fight, no fight. That's a strong bargaining chip lately in boxing, and Haye was voicing a serious issue with draining late into his CW run. Might not agree with him. :think

 

Well, if Bernard Hopkins wants to become Heavyweight champion of the world, there should be no catch-weight business. The whole reason the win would be such an achievement is because Hopkins would be beating a lesser fighter, but one who holds significant size advantages. I see Hopkins frustrating Haye early with his spoiling and movement, I just think a knockout is inevitable. Someone as fast and as mobile as Haye is going to land shots, and do you envision Hopkins standing up to them. There was a few whispers going around that we were overstating Haye's power at Heavyweight, but I think he proved it by having a 7ft Giant on ***** street.

 

Well, we've seen some fighters with mediocre to decent power at HW rattle Valuev.

Ruiz supposedly had him unofficially down though I've never seen that fight.

I know Gerald Nobles stunned him.

Knocking Valuev out may be next to impossible but its been shown more then once that he isn't impossible to rattle, fast as he does recover. :think

 

Absolutely. Valuev has been hurt before, but Haye landed a left hand on the head of Valuev which had him doing a dance. That isn't even Haye's best shot. It was enough evidence to suggest if Haye lands on Hopkins, he can get him out of there. For all of his shortcomings, and there are many, Haye can hit very hard indeed, even by Heavyweight standards and let's not forget, Hopkins ain't nothing but a Light Heavyweight really.

 

Eh. I don't know. If his power was absolutely top shelf among heavyweights I can't see why he couldn't do more against Valuev then he did, how he couldn't do much more to him then a puncher like Ruiz.

Even against Barret... Did you see what a fat as **** Solis did to Barret in Monte's next fight with a single hook? :scaredas: Or even what Valuev did to Monte with shots from left friggin' field.

For all Haye's power he sure has a hard time using it effectively against guys landing clean. I want to see him spark people out like a true, elite HW puncher would.

 

Hardly any surprise there :huh

He's Old Man River surviving on ATG skills and experience :yep

 

I betted a few times against Hopkins. Always lost. I will never do it again.