What's the Classic opinion: could B-Hop really move up and defeat Haye?

I am saying it. Haye will DESTROY Hopkins and it will happen early (four or less).

Jack Dempsey KO4 Georges Carpentier
Joe Louis KO1 John Henry Lewis
Joe Frazier KO2 Bob Foster
Mike Tyson KO1 Michael Spinks
David Haye KO? Bernard Hopkins

 

Mismatch IMO. The problem is Hopkins doesn't have have great power at his natural weight, never mind at Heavy. Thus he's going to have very little in which to discourage Haye from simply walking forward and battering him at will. Much has been made about Haye's stoppage loss and him being hurt and wobbled at cruiserweight but if you're really killing yourself to make weight (and it seems like Haye was) then it's going to have an impact on your strength and ability to take punishment. His loss against Carl Thompson was as much due to Haye punching himself out as what Thompson did. And let's not forget that Carl Thompson can really dig.

Haye is a genuinely athletic, powerful heavyweight. I wasn't sure how powerful but he made a 7ft 2 inch, 315 pound monster do the chicken dance with a single left hook, far from his best punch. We all know Hopkins has a great chin at MW/SMW but tasting genuine HW power is a whole different ballgame. I just can't see how Hopkins is going to fend off Haye, much less deal with his power. Haye is being sold a little short by some who have only seen the Valuev fight and heard about his stoppage loss. The guy though is the best athlete the heavyweight division has seen for a while and he will dismantle BHop.

Can't see it going past 4 rounds myself.

 

Hopkins' goal will not be to knock Haye out, nor to hit him hard enough to earn respect and get him to back up. Hopkins isn't a cutie-pie jab on the outside kind of guy - he likes to get inside your power.

Haye's questionable HW chin is not even a factor in this fight. Bernard's spoiling, survival instinct, and stubborn insistence on setting the pace will be. This is a fight where you can bet mom's jewelry on the over. The winner ultimately will depend entirely on how their sizes and physical dimensions do match up (unknowable for sure until it happens) and what exactly the judges like.

 

Same go. Im the one who said he should outwork and outhustle him and set a brisk pace from the get go. If you think hes coming out brawling recklessley from start to finish the bet still stands.

 

The over is a betting term, typically (not always) synonymous with going the scheduled distance. ie you'd wager on the over/under 10.5 rounds. :good

Well...half of my analysis is obvious (you stopped short of saying "no duh", appreciate that :yep) and the other half - the 'mystique', you completely disagree with. :think

I stand by the mystique. Haye's big and strong, and fast (and agile) proportionate to his greater brawn, yes. However, Hopkins has seen it all up to this point. Well, everything except someone like Haye. Between his intimate experiential knowledge of the game (down to every last detail, he's one of the most meticulous technicians I've ever seen) and his impeccable reactive and adaptive abiliities, he'd get over Haye's imposing dimensionality pretty quick. If it means getting ugly as an inbred, wrapping Haye's arms in a desperate deathcuddle after charging in with single lead potshots, then that's what it means. If it means getting dirty and straying low or popping out his go-go-gadget-neck to butt Haye when the ref's not in an advantageous position to see (which believe me, Bernard will be aware of at all times), then that's what it means. He's the kind of guy who'll figure it out. If he can't, he's doomed. Until it plays out you have to afford him the opportunity to figure it out. To do otherwise is to insult his considerable ring intelligence.

And say he should load up on a well-timed counter right hand and actually succeed in getting Haye's attention? How does that change the make-up of the fight? Haye could bring in a brilliant gameplan, but would he have a "B" and "C" if Hopkins made him uncomfortable or began dictating things like distance and pace, making him miss and touching him with potshots? You know Bernard has up through plan Z, and then into AA, BB etc.

There are spring-loaded intangibles here, and too many to call this a mismatch; on that I refuse to budge. :bart :good

 

Haye would just go back to his Cruiser/Bonin style of attack; Hopkins is just so intelligent, wily and tough that he'll survive a few rounds.

Haye WOULD land on him at some point and no matter how sturdy Hopkins' chin has been over the years, a 45 year old man(by the time of the fight)getting hit by David Haye?!?!?!?!?!?

This fight will NOT happen, Hopkins would get smashed into oblivion. I wouldn't like to see it.

 

I am sorry, but doing these comparisons of all time great heavyweights performances are absolutely irrelevant, because Haye is certainly not in the same league as any of these guys, in fact i seriously doubt he survives a fight with any of the guys mentioned. Dont forget Haye, at the very best is a top 3 - 5 fighter in the world, at the moment, and even that is probably unproven.

For the record, how did the following matches end up which are a bit closer to the mark in terms of abilities of the respective fighters within their own weight division:

Roy Jones vs John Ruiz
James Toney vs Evander Holyfield, John Ruiz (By the time Rahman, Peter and Oquendo came around his condition was too far gone to be considered of any relevance)
Bob Fitzsimmons vs Jim Corbett, Tom Sharkey, Peter Maher
Harry Greb vs Bill Brennan, Jack Renault, Gunboat Smith

Incidentally, all of the guys you picked were light heavyweights, not world middleweight champions. History (other than the age factor) is actually on the side of Hopkins in this one. When did an average heavyweight ever KO an ATG middleweight?

And even with the guys you mentioned (all light heavies), maybe you should look what happened when they fought guys closer to the ability of David Haye. Look up the following results:
Spinks vs Cooney, Holmes, Tangsted
Foster vs (bad example admittedly) Besmanoff, Whitehurst, Hazelton, Terrell, Foley, Polite, Moore, Quinn, Benjamin, Bailey
John Henry lewis vs Simms, Merriot, Ettore, Birkie, Kranz, Davis, Colonello, Gustinaga, Rugginallo, Risko, Tow and Ray.
Carpentier vs George Cook, Gunboat smith, Joe Jeanette, Bombadier Billy Wells

The reality is that World light heavyweight or middleweight champions, despite what is assumed on here, are virtually never KOd with the first heavyweight punch that hits them, and when they do land, they have no trouble hurting and causing damage against heavyweights. If he thinks he can throw caution to the wind and land a big haymaker without worrying about getting hit, he will lose, it doesnt work that way.

 

No, Haye stops him in 9 or 10 rds.

 

One interesting question, is Haye's lack of power, even at the middleweight level (not saying he has no power) but he isnt recognised as a big banger say like a bob foster, or even a Spinks. Would this help or hinder him? A bob Foster for example had that awesome ko power at light heavy which became average at Heavy. Hopkins doesnt have the same power, but then again, he is use to fighters "Shaking off" some of his bigger shots. The advantages he usually enjoys like Stamina, ring generalship etc, he shoud still enjoy, and in some cases they might even be bigger advantages. Is it better for a middleweight (obviously it would be hard no matter what) to come up when they are a big puncher, a fast puncher, or a ring general? Is it ideal for big hitting light heavys and middles to come up when they are often massively reliant on power which will no longer be in existence. It is quite possible that not being so reliant on power game will actually suit Hopkins in this one. It certainly seemed to suit him when he moved from light heavy to heavy. The speed reliance that Jones had didnt suit him either, and Toney for all intensive purposes i would have thought has a similar style to Bernard except he no longer has any endurance. there is really no reason why Bernard even at the lighter weight could not put on a Toney style performance at heavy. In fact, i think that I would like to see a Hopkins vs Toney heavyweight clash. It would be the perfect replacement for the Roy Jones Jr megamatch and if Hopkins dominates like i think he would it sets him up for some big fights against the likes of Valuev and Haye. I also wouldnt mind seeing him fight someone like Kali Meehan or even better, Evander Holyfield. I agree that the Klits should be out of reach, although i suppose if he did somehow manage to win the above fights it would leave him with a chance of immortality and probably an overtaking of Sugar Ray Robinson.

This is all unlikely, but not many people get a shot at such a legacy, so who knows. Previous greats have tried to claim equally as high mountains.

 

Well yes, contrary to some opinions eh em thread starter, Haye would have to approach this fight a bit more cautiously than most think. Hopkins has a proven chin, and only at this point in his career looks for spots and openings to operate in. The biggest mistake would be for Haye to recklessly approach this fight with a balls out style. The best approach would be to systematically break him down using movement and a high workrate, and then look for the kill once the 45 year old is softened up. Hopkins is crafty, doesnt get hit cleanly and has a good chin and has never been blasted out by anyone.
He is 45 years old and would be at a big disadvantage in the power department, but Im not so sure Hayes chin could stand up to getting hit cleanly by a reckless approach.
Hopkins Toney is an excellent fight, and Toney seems to have gotten himself into better shape lately, but I think Hopkins is only interested in a title and Haye is signed on with Golden Boy for US fights, so it could happen.