What's the final PPV #'s for Casa-JMM?

What I meant was that

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that from Promoters. The majority of Promoters will try to milk the cow as much as they can, and that's why I understand that, it doesn't mean I agree with that or I accept it, but it is what it is, all what I can do is speak out.

When it comes to fans, then is when I have a problem, because

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that from a fan, a real fan. Fans shouldn't fall for it, they shouldn't behave or act as promoters.... fans shoul'd demand the best fights possible regardless of the money involved. It is unbelievable the way some fans behave, repeating like parrots the same words the promoters and/or boxers use to avoid the real challenges.....

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Does it sound familiar? These are just a few.

Most of the time they are used by some fans to justify a decision made by a boxer when he doesn't fight who the vast majority expect or are demanding.

 

My opinion about why the 135 (the whole division, I am talking about the whole ****ing division, and that includes Juan Diaz and Campbell) is weak is not based on the three SFW who came up.... no, it is not based on that, (my comments about that was just an example) I said that way before they moved up. Compare them to other called great ones that have fought at that weight and you'll see.

Even if Diaz and Campbell "have proven their worth", that doesn't mean they are great. Greatness is something else and they don't have it and they never will. They are great fighters in comparison with the rest at 135 NOW, that's it, my analysis is beyond that, and when it comes to this era in comparison with others, they are among the weakest ever.

 

Seems you are trying to rewrite history and redefine the meaning of "FAN". Fans are fans whereever and what sport...they may not fill in to your perspective but they constitute the majority of the paying public. People in these forums are more or less critics/historians or writers with a broader acceptance of the true meaning of fan and not the ordinary "fans" you meet on the street ... but still they are what make the world go round...

 

Exactly! That's it! That's what I've been saying all along Thinman. Your talking about them being great fighters. Your delving into a bigger scope. I'm simply talking about them being great lightweight fighters at this point in time. There's a difference between the 2 terms.

Ofcourse I wouldn't consider them great fighters(I'm not that crazy man), they haven't done that much in their careers as a WHOLE to be considered on that level. I was just responding to divac who questioned me if I consider them great lightweights. To which I confirmed that I do consider them great at 135lbs. Notice how I always say great LWs, and not fighters, in all my posts?

 

Its possible that GBP will stay quiet on the PPV buys for JMM-Casamayor......

.....thats alot better imo than Bob Arum spewing and throwing straightout lies, claiming that Pac-Diaz did 250K, when in fact is did well under 180K......would'nt be suprised if Pac-Diaz did below 150K, as they never did release the final tally......but lie throught his teeth Arum did do.

.......of course, when Arum spews out lies, nobody even takes notice, as its become his trademark!

"Yesterday I was lying, today I'm telling the truth!" -Bob Arum:rofl

 

NO. I am not trying to rewrite history. There are

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and there are

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, I didn't invent or creat those words...... they existed even before I came to this world.......... I am a fan not a fanatic. Who are you?

 

Neither Juan Diaz or Nate Campbell are great fighters or great lightweights for that matter.

Now, you could say that you consider Juan Diaz or Nate Campbell to be the best lightweight in existence today......but being the best in a current division does'nt make you great......

......You said Juan Diaz and Nate Campbell we're great lightweight, I say not even close, those fighters are so far from anyone with any boxing sense to label them great!

 

Casa in his prime bordered on great, in fact I would consider him a great fighter. Diaz? That's a joke.

 

Pick any sport..... baseball, basketball, soccer, etc etc etc, after you have decided the sport, take the teams that finished last, pick the last 4 teams, and make a tournament, chances are that the tournament will be very competitive, because they will be at the same level.... but if you take those four teams and mix them with the teams that finished at the top..... in this case the first 4 teams, then you'll see a diferent result. The teams that finished last will show their real colours, you'll see the kind of wood they are made of..... you'll see they are not great.

In other words, being competitive does not necessarily mean being great.....it just mean that you can compete.

Juan Diaz and Campbell look great when it comes to fighting each other, and they might look great fighting other 135 pounders, but in reality they are not as great as you think they are.

I said they are great if we think about them fighting at their level.... imo, Campbell is better thant David Diaz,..... and Juan Diaz is better than Julio Diaz and David Diaz, but that doesnt mean they are great boxers or great 135 pounders,

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We actually had a few posters around here ranking Arturo Gatti and Mickey Ward as great fighters during their trilogy series......

.....the reality is that they gave us 3 great fights fighting eachother.....but the reality also is that any truly great fighter in history would have made mincemeat out of both of them.

Nate Campbell fought great against Juan Diaz.....that however does'nt make him a great fighter.

Being in a great fight does'nt make you a great fighter.

 

Very difficult to swallow for some FANS... if you know what I mean.....

 

Again, if you actually read what you quoted I never said they were great fighters as a whole, I say they are great lightweights.

The fact is they have accomplished big things at Lightweight, bigger than anybody in the division. Not too long ago, Juan Diaz was a 3 belt world champion and considered the man at 135. Nobody wanted a piece of him. Then came Campbell and beat him AT HIS OWN GAME!! You might say its not that impressive but lets not kid ourselves here, everybody here adored Diaz and spoke highly of him. Then when Campbell beat him, it was considered a HUGE upset and catapulted Nate to the top of the heap(yes even after Pac, JMM and Guzman had moved up, he was still considered numero uno).

So again, I will beg to differ. Those accomplishments of them PLUS the skills they possess in the ring make them great lightweights for me. Otherwise if you don't consider those accomplishments as something great, then you must also be prepared to consider Pac and JMM not great lightweights.

 

Oh yes they are if you also consider the things they have achieved at LW and how good they are in the ring. Don't just concentrate on them being competitive because that's only half the story. The simple fact is, along with their competitiveness, they also achieved great things at the weight. Those 2 things go hand in hand, and they just nicked it.

Here's the simple truth. Take away Nate Campbell and Juan Diaz, and the Lightweight division wouldn't be considered the best division in boxing. It'll be just like the 130lb division when JMM, Pac and Guzman where there: One of the best, but not the best.

For me, Juan Diaz, Nate Campbell, Manny Pacquiao and Juan Manuel Marquez are great 135lbers. You can probably throw in Joan Guzman there if your really into him.

 

What so impresses you about Nate Campbell?
Is it his loss to Joel Casamayor, the only top notch fighter on his resume?

Is it his two KO losses to Robbie Peden, a fighter who both JMM and MAB took to school?

.....and let me break it to you simple about Juan Diaz.....he was an up and comer with potential, but he was basically untested. His best win was against a fighter who's known to quit when the going got tough (Freitas)
......the one time that a fighter bodies up on him and pushes him back, he gets taken apart and beatdown.

I dont know your definition of greatness, but simply Juan Diaz and Nate Campbell dont qualify

I'll even take it further than that......I dont even consider JMM or Pacquiao great 130 pounders, much less great 135 pounders.
Both are proven great fighters, but they're not proven great 130 or 135 pounders.
Lets be realistic here, they both have done nothing but beat up on fighters that were coming fromt he same weight classes below that they were once in.
.....aside from those, Pac beats up on a non-respected paper champion in David Diaz, and JMM beats up on Casamayor who had clearly seen his better days.

Neither Pac nor JMM has yet to face a legit natural 130 or 135 lbs dangerous fighter fighting at the top of his game.

.....this is something that should really concern Manny Pacquiao fans.
Its being reported now that Pacquiao is going up two weight divisions to fight DLH.
I dont agree with that.
.....being that he has'nt fought a real fighter at 135 lbs, what he's really doing is going up three weight classes to fight not just a welterweight, but a big welterweight who has been fighting as a junior middleweight for almost a decade.

Its a pity that this has to happen, but money talks!

 

Debate is over.... not need to add anything else. :good