What's the hardest style to overcome overall?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Colonel Sanders, Sep 14, 2021 at 5:32 AM.

  1. Pepsi Dioxide

    Pepsi Dioxide Active Member Full Member

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    Winky Wright high guard type style with a good jab. Besides the Vasquez fight it was a long while before anyone looked "good" against him.
     
  2. thistle

    thistle Well-Known Member Full Member

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    1) a Hard Hitting Stylish Counter Puncher, basically a Slick Cagey BOXER/fighter... Lloyd Marshall, JJW type.

    2) after that the Squat BULL Strong, Digger, Brawler Puncher... Cerdan, Qawi, Tyson type fighter

    3) the Beautiful Pure Boxer - Joe Louis, SRR, Leonard, Camacho and many, many others.

    1 & 3 are often found together, but you get my points.

    tall Rangy Hard Hitters too, Steele, Saddler, Hearns types...

    in between 1 & 2, but not Squat, JCC, GGG types, strong, punchers and hold the Ring types...
     
  3. Jpreisser

    Jpreisser Active Member Full Member

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    In general, I would say boxer-movers who are southpaw.
     
  4. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Swarmers but thats just my experience
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021 at 3:21 PM
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  5. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It's hard to argue against a well rounded boxer puncher. As long as they have good fundamentals and above average power and hand speed. If they are sorely lacking in any of the three, each of the main styles can exploit it.

    -For example, a boxer puncher who has mediocre or weak power can get run over by a heavy handed slugger or can be miserable attempting to keep volume punchers off of them.

    -A boxer puncher who lacks speed can end up chasing movers and outside guys around helplessly.

    -A boxer puncher who lacks fundamentals can get picked apart by technicians, defensive fighters, and counter punchers.

    However, the opposite is also true.

    A boxer puncher who has good ratings in these 3 stats can hold their own with each of the main boxing styles--essentially keeping up with or even beating them at their own game. It can be a daunting task to try to overcome someone who brings so many tools to the table.

    Often, the longest reigning champions are boxer punchers or at least have a more well rounded game plan rather than exclusively relying on just one style. Volume punchers often burn themselves out due to having such a draining style that requires tons of stamina and aggression. Sluggers are very unlikely to have long reigns due to their lack of defense and/or stamina. Counter punchers and defensive fighters can sometimes struggle to avoid getting robbed on the scorecards even if they seemingly put on a clinic--and on the other hand, they can be a little too passive and cautious which leads to them rightfully not getting a verdict in close fights. Movers and outside fighters may enjoy success if they have good reach/speed etc but this is a less reliable style as they get older and their legs begin to lose their steam. A boxer puncher tends to get the most mileage and less draw backs over a long stretch of time--Joe Louis being the most successful example.
     
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  6. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders Classic discussion : small vs big, old vs modern Full Member

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    That bit doesn't make sense. If you have weak power, you're not a boxer-puncher to begin with.
     
  7. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    True, but then you have weirdos like Robert Guerrero who fight aggressively on the front foot despite lacking real power.
     
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  8. Colonel Sanders

    Colonel Sanders Classic discussion : small vs big, old vs modern Full Member

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    I will NOT let you introduce a 'weirdo' boxing style. :nonono
     
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  9. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Addict Full Member

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    How hypocritical :lol:
     
  10. Saintpat

    Saintpat Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think you’re right on with the last point.

    Trying to get Mike Tyson to fight like Willie Pep wouldn’t work. Trying to get Thomas Hearns to fight like Mike Tyson wouldn’t work.

    Body type (reach included), attributes like speed and power and — this from my experience as a trainer of amateurs and some pros, is the one that is hardest to put your finger on and figure out — the boxer’s disposition all figure into it. Some guys are, for instance, aggressive by nature no matter what you do; telling them to hold back is like telling a pit bull to be a poodle. Some are more reactive and thus disposed to be counter-punchers and are not comfortable when leading. Etc.

    (I’m probably overstating, but Jimmy Ellis is a guy who the more I watch I see him more as a fighter and a boxer; people tend to think of him as a stick-and-move guy but he’s got some innate will to mix it up and I think Dundee managed to find some perfect balance where Jimmy was fighting against his nature and blending both to get the most out of his abilities.)

    It’s an interesting topic and I understand the objection to my earlier answer of saying I’d rather have speed (which I chose because I think it’s an attribute that lends itself to myriad styles and also confounds a lot of opponents even of greeater overall ability) and I appreciate you course-correcting me back toward the topic so we can have a meaningful discussion.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021 at 3:41 PM
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  11. Kamikaze

    Kamikaze Undisputed* Duration Champion Full Member

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    Real counterpunchers who have a good defence and chin. Rarely catching them all night as they pot shot you and when you finally do they don't even grunt they just shell up and keep moving like usual. Kind of sounds like Toney?
     
  12. Shay Sonya

    Shay Sonya Member Full Member

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    I have to agree with that, especially on a personal level. I trained to box in a gym in New Jersey. At the time ex Light Heavyweight Contender Richie Kates was my trainer. I was the only woman in the gym. Although I never actually had a fight (I never intended to and partly because that was a condition of Richie training me at all) I did participate in Gym Wars with the guys. I was developing an out boxer style and the two hard swarmer types we had in the gym were very hard to handle. I would much rather fight another boxer or a slugger than those two guys. They really kept me busy in the ring. {{{GASP!}}} :ggg
     
  13. Saintpat

    Saintpat Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I guess the best answer for me within the constraints of the question is:

    Southpaw.

    They give most people fits. Hard to look good against even if you beat them. If you’re right-handed and fight southpaw, you’re going to have a monster jab so it works that way too.

    Now if I’m making a business decision, it’s harder to get fights as a southpaw because people avoid them in general so it’s harder to move up the ranks.

    But as far as what style gives more fighters problems regardless of the style of opponent, I’d say a lefty.
     
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  14. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    About lefties, they reach their plateau and peak sooner than orthodox fighters on average due to their inherent stylistic advantage. But they also tend to hit a ceiling sooner. Kind of like a popular kid in high school who peaks at 18 and becomes a loser while others are late bloomers enjoying success later on. From what I've seen in both the amateurs and pros, southpaws reach a certain point early and then don't make many drastic improvements or adjustments in their styles.

    Guys like Pacquiao, Whitaker, and Hagler, who had very long and great careers with many defenses are rare. Southpaws aren't always successful in the long run at the elite level and may fizzle out after creating waves or have a bit of a yo yo career.

    But I do agree that in general, southpaws are a pain in the ass for just about any style.
     
  15. Toney F*** U

    Toney F*** U Boxing junkie Full Member

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    What’s a pot shotter?