What's the highest you can rank Ezzard Charles all time?

Last year (January 2011) I had up to #7, from his previous placing in 2007 of #14:

7 Ezzard Charles (14)
6 Muhammad Ali (10)
5 Bob Fitzsimmons (13)
4 Harry Greb (9)
3 Roberto Duran (3)
2 Henry Armstrong (2)
1 Ray Robinson (1)

 

Solid list but no Langford?

 

#5

For some reason, in my head there seems to be a very definitive top 4, all of which are interchangeable at the #1 spot based on whatever your preferences are. These four are Armstrong, Robinson, Greb, and Langford. I'm sure someone could make a case for him being ahead of one of those men. Just maybe, but I think it's a stretch. I do feel good about Charles being ranked just behind those men at #5 because he is that damn good.

 

I used to have Langford in the top 10 (number 9), but the last two times I did the lists in 2007 and 2011, he was 18th on both occasions. I would like to see him higher.

 

what you need to consider also is the validity of those rankings because in 42 zale went out to war and burley was realistically as good a choice as any as the number 1 mw. he also beat the number 1 lhw in moore. he also beat the number 1 hw in louis.

Add to that we're literallt talking archie moore and joe louis here, two of the greatest fighter's in their divisions history.

Not sure how many errors I have here, but I have him going like this in terms of meaningful opposition:

Maxim (3-0-0), Bivins, Ray (1-1-0), Baksi, Walcott (2-2-0), Valentino, Beshore, Louis, Oma, Layne (2-1-0), Kahut, Brion, Harrison, Valdes, Wallace, Sattersfield, Holman; Moore (3-0-0), Marshall (2-0-0), Smith (2-0-0), Bivins, Lesnevich, Fitzpatrick; Overlin (0-0-1), Yarosz, Christoforidis, Burley (2-0-0), Basora.

I've only included losses between 46 and 52 as this is when I think his prime was. The quality there is astounding really. All those opponents have been rated or titlists at some point in their career but to beat the number 1 in 3 divisions from mw to hw is an amazing feat.

 

he was one of the greatest light-heavyweights ever.
not sure about pound-4-pound.

 

:good

Indeed, we've had this conversation before as far as the ratings go. It's only a generalization of the opposition he was up against. All of those guys are deserving HOFers and that would be enough in a lot of cases, although I think it's important to include such ratings as to illustrate their level at a particular point. Otherwise it's all too easy for someone to claim so-and-so was washed up and whatnot to besmirch a resume. I've seen people try and do it to Ray Robinson and it just doesn't fly. I'm probably even selling his opposition short in terms of ratings. At the time of those fights, they may of been even higher as you pointed out with Burley.

 

Is it a stretch to say charles has the greatest resume in history?

Burley, moore and walcott. 3 prime divisional greats all at the top of their division.

Can anyone match them top 3 victories?

That's even before going into the likes of bivins, maxim, louis etc.

 

What's even more remarkable - no ducking as far as i know.

Langford and Greb usually named as having two other greatest legacies.

 

Langford has:

Gans - lightweight

Controversial (?) draw against Walcott - welter

Ketchel - middleweight

Wills - heavyweight

 

He cannot be no1, no way, I know he beat a lot of ATG fighters but c`mon, he had a lot of losses too & quite a few in his best years... Im not saying you have to be undefeated or anything but compare Ray Robinson`s dominance & consistency to Ezzard Charles`s... he should not under any circumstances be placed over Robinson.

 

Top 3 is difficult, but Robinson has no shortage where resume is concerned:

Partial Summary:


RAY ROBINSON:
07/41: Sammy Angott [60-15] (LW Champ) W10
10/41: Fritzie Zivic [111-26] (#3 WW) W10
01/42: Fritzie Zivic [113-27] (#7 WW) W-KO10
07/42: Sammy Angott [68-16] (#2 LW) W10
10/42: Jake LaMotta [25-4] (#6 MW) W10
02/43: Jake LaMotta [30-5] (#1 MW) L10
02/43: Jake LaMotta [31-5] (#1 MW) W10
08/43: Henry Armstrong [133-17] (#2 WW) W10
02/45: Jake LaMotta [45-8] (#2 MW) W10
09/45: Jake LaMotta [52-9] (#2 MW) W10
12/46: Tommy Bell [39-10] (#1 WW) W15
06/47: Jimmy Doyle [43-6] (#7 WW) W-KO8
06/48: Bernard Docusen [49-2] (#3 WW) W15
09/48: Kid Gavilan [46-5] (#1 WW) W10
07/49: Kid Gavilan [53-6] (#1 WW) W15
10/50: Carl Olson [41-3] ( ) W-KO12
02/51: Jake LaMotta [78-14] (MW Champ) W-KO13
07/51: Randy Turpin [40-2] (#4 MW) L15
09/51: Randy Turpin [41-2] (MW Champ) W-KO10
03/52: Carl Olson [48-5] (#3 MW) W15
04/52: Rocky Graziano [67-8] (#10 MW) KO3
06/52: Joey Maxim [77-18] (LHW Champ) L-KO14
12/55: Carl Olson [71-7] (MW Champ) W-KO2
05/56: Carl Olson [71-8] (#1 MW) W-KO4
01/57: Gene Fullmer [37-3] (#1 MW) L15
05/57: Gene Fullmer [40-3] (MW Champ) W-KO5
09/57: Carmen Basilio [51-12] (#1 MW) L15
03/58: Carmen Basilio [52-12] (MW Champ) W15

High caliber title defenses of his WW crown against Galivan, Bell, Docusen, Doyle. While he lost the MW title numerous times, he always seemed to win it back and was fighting the best in the division.

 

It's strange but I don't see Burley's name in Robinson's resume!

 

Yeah, people always say when exactly was he supposed to give Burley a title shot.

Who said anything about a title....

 

He lost in his prime 3 times, all at hw which wads well above his prime weight.

I don't have him above robinson but I wouldn't bat an eyelid at anyone who did.