What's with all the over 240 lbs HWs if 210-220s lbs has been proven to be the ideal HW size?

He's shown that that weight is enough for him to dominate...

But not everyone has the reflexes, ring IQ and footwork he has - being fairly lightweight and able to sustain a high workrate makes sense for him, because it helps maximize his strengths.

Because Usyks style won't work for everyone... So Usyks build, which suits that style, won't either.


If you're a granite chinned guy with naturally heavy hands, does it make sense to trim down for maximum agility (which still isn't particularly agile) or does it make more sense to add muscle and not worry too much about fat and increase your power even more?


Parker is an odd one in the sense that he probably does make more sense with a bit less bulk... But plenty don't.


That's what makes heavyweight interesting - there are different viable paths... Even if some paths have higher ceilings than others, multiple paths are viable - and that's interesting.

 

Natural selection. Only a small fraction of the cruiserweights have moved up which means big heavyweights aren't threatened to slim down for speed. The landscape can't favor small slick heavyweights when there aren't any around and SHWs can just keep getting bigger and bigger with no consequences. Force every cruiserweight to fight at heavyweight and I guarantee the landscape would change drastically

Notice how Fury did way better in the first fight when he weighed 20 pounds less

 

But then, even just using Fury as an example, look at the difference between his first and second Wilder bouts...
He was getting on for 20 pounds heavier in #2 and completely dominated the dosser - where in #1 he still should've won but was able to get robbed.

Now yes, you can point out that he was rusty in Wilder #1 and that also makes a difference to the performance levels...

But equally - he was younger in the first Usyk bout and could've declined more by the rematch than Usyk did?


Ultimately, it comes down to style and what build makes sense for it, IMHO... The switch in styles between Wilder bouts meant adding weight made sense - where against Usyk trying to box more, I don't think Fury should've gone heavier.

 

Wilder isn't an agile boxer with good defense. He's has limited offense with terrible footwork. Fury didn't need to do anything special but walk him down and take away his right hand

 

Agreed.

But surely the point stands that it depends what style you're fighting with, and secondly what you're fighting against?


What I'm getting at is Usyk might be the best we've seen for a long time, but that doesn't necessarily mean his build is ideal for everyone

 

THIS!! Very well said.

There really isn’t any ‘ideal prototypical’ HW body type. Certain guys are extremely good at using what they were given to the best of their abilities. The Klitschkos were masters at using their height and range. And Usyk has a ring IQ and fighting spirit in him that in my opinion is top 2 or 3 in history. I’m a Huge fan of Usyk… but gotta be honest, you put him in with prime Wladimir at his best with Steward (2007-2012) and I’m not sure who wins that fight. Usyk would be up against ATG power and an ATG jab. 50/50.

Point being… many different body types at heavyweight can be successful.

 

Its all situational, but an elite 6'2-6'3 heavyweight is big enough to beat every size. Some cruiserweights can also pack KO power behind their ability which is scarier than someone like a Bakole

 

He has shown nothing of the sort.

He has demonstrated that great talent, immense dedication and a unique southpaw style can compensate for lack of size and power.

The fact is that size confers many advantages to a fighter, and that is why we have weight classes.

 

Up to a point, yes... But then arguably the reason most heavies are bigger is because that's more effective most of the time.

Usyk could well be a bit of an outlier... And probably is - let's face it, if skill and intelligence levels need to be high, along with a naturally good chin, for that style to work then the number of people capable of being an Usyk, even a mediocre imitation of him, is always going to be quite low.

Whereas a big, dumb lump with a good chin is probably more common - does it make more sense that more of this type would be dangerous by bulking up and maximizing their power with their relative crudeness, rather than trying to stay light and fast with their limited iq?

I think that's why - both types can be effective up to a point, but guys like Joyce, Dubois, Miller, etc wouldn't get anywhere near the top by losing the bulk and trying to go slick... But they can be effective by maximizing their effectiveness via power and being heavier isn't a disadvantage to them.

 

Diminishing returns exist. Size has its advantages i agree but Fury struggling and getting dropped by the only 2 cruiserweights he ever fought (Cunningham and Usyk) suggests these big heavyweights just aren't exposed to top level cruiserweights who could potentially beat them. Which is probably why the heavyweights went supersized post Klitschko era.

 

Maybe...
Or maybe Fury just had particular problems with smaller men - or was just outclassed by elite Usyk and underestimated Cunningham because of his size?

I suspect if cruiser size guys could dominate the heavyweight division they'd already be doing it - the money's better, the prestige is higher, why wouldn't they?

Why would guys like Briedis and Opetaia stay at cruiser?

And why would quite successful cruisers like Gassiev and even the Okolipuss be extremely average at heavy?


For every Usyk, Holyfield or even Haye there are dozens that move up and fail, or don't even try...


I really do think Usyk is an exception - there have been and will be others, but the ones that succeed have to be really special and really well suited to fighting as the smaller man.

 

I'm not sure, but we know lesser fighters than Briedis and Opetaia like Hunter could stop Bakole and draw with Povetkin. Huck arguably beat Povetkin. Haye delt with a prime Chisora, so his athleticism and power would probably be a big threat today, Chris Byrd was another. Fury was the best big man and Cunningham came close to winning that. Parker couldn't stop Jack Massey and got rocked but Opetaia easily did. This isn't an abberation, we just don't have enough cruiserweights moving up

Wladimir is better than every shw today to be fair.

 

That may not necessarily be an accident... Those that are on the naturally bigger side are more suited to moving up - even though they don't become shw's... But those who don't probably have good reason to.


Equally... To be successful within a weight category is different to heavyweight where anything goes - most decent cruisers have to be reasonably quick and agile otherwise they don't make it at the weight.


And of course, for every good example there's plenty of poor ones.


I don't disagree that it's possible for them to succeed - I just don't think it's necessarily the case that smaller/lighter/faster heavies have a default advantage, it all depends how good they are.

 

I'm sure we can use maths and stats to work this out. There is way more guys who are in the 6' to 6'3 range and 200 to 230lbs, than there are guys taller and bigger and yet the taller and bigger guys are far more likely to be higher level heavyweights.

Therefore being bigger has to give a pretty big advantage considering how there is way less guys at that size around, but they make up the large majority of heavyweights. Usyk is just an aberration, the exception to the rule.