whats with the cuban take over??

I saw this film at the Los Angeles Latino Film Festival and was amazed, I am cuban and my uncle is a boxing trainer in Cuba, he trained both Gamboa and Solis and other famous cuban amatuers when they were young kids, he is also a close friend of Felix Savon, watching the film really hit home for me because I was always arond those kids when I was their age living in Cuba, I think the film is amazing and will continue to recommend it everyone I can as I have already, I also made a thread in this forum telling people about a while back.

Great work, really appriciate it and ever since seeing the film, as you can see my avatar has not chance. Im really looking forwad to getting a DVD of it since I keep telling friends and family about it but never have the resource to show it.

 

I dont think he is greatest cuban amatuer boxer, I think Rigndeaux, Stevenson and Savon at ahead of him, but he is one of the greatest an you can argue his skill against any boxer.

here is a video for those of you who have never seen him

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4lR_QF4D14[/ame]

 

Being nationalistic is one thing, distorting history to fit your views and pass them off as facts is another.

Casamayor didn't "dominate" anybody or any weight class. He was a decent fighter that failed at the highest level, nothing more. Going toe to toe with Diego Corrales in two close fights don't make you a great fighter. Neither does being outclassed by a C level Santa Cruz.

Secondly, DON'T EVER mention Juan Carlos Gomez in the same breath as Holyfield in terms of cruiserweight accomplishments. :nono It only makes you look foolish. So please put down the Cuban newspaper, please.

At heavyweight, Gomez was a nobody. He did nothing exceptional as cruiserweight except defend against mandatories, while much better fighters like Hill, Jirov, Toney were still at cruiserweight. Not too mention the cruiserweight division back then was a **** division worse than the heavyweights until Haye, Bell, Cunningham, Mormeck, etc.. all came along years later to revitalize that weight class.

 

Lets say Cuba opens up and becomes a democratic.

The guys in Cuba would suddenly have other options in their lives.
1. Half of them will choose other careers rather than boxing.
2. Amateur careers will not even be half as long as they are now.
3. Many of those who make it to Pro will derail as soon as they have a couple of bucks in their pockets.
4. Cuba dominance on amateur boxing will dissappear. (already declining)
5. A lot of good boxer will look good at pro for the first few years, then it will be just like Mexico, Puerto Rico, or Phillipines.

You are stuck on the race issue and don't want to see reality. Democracy and Capitalism are great. But most people will choose easier lifes if given the chance. Half of Cuba boxers will be doing something else if they were given the chance. IT HAPPENS IN EVERY COUNTRY!!!!!!

 

My friend, Casamayor defeated the great Corrales " 3 times " ( the one loss was a robbery ), did'nt lose to Freitas ( another robbery ) and did'nt lose to Castillo ( another robbery ), Joel got " screwed " in the big fights all 3 times...He also defeated many good solid names like Roberto Garcia, Jong-Kwon Baek, Nate Campbell, Daniel Seda and Michael Katsidis...Keep in mind that Joel went downhill very quick in his mid 30's, this is why he started to look bad sometimes and other times look good ( Katsidis battle VS Santa Cruz ). All Cuban amateurs have from 300 to 400 amateur bouts before turning pro and that in itself takes away a lot of their pro miles when they enter the pros. A Cuban fighter is mostly " done " when they reach around 35 years old whether American fighters like for example Hopkins, Jones etc are still going strong at age 40+ !!!

Joel Casamayor is a 2 time World Champion and 2 division World Champ who defended his WBA 5 times and is also Olympic Champion...

You are wrong about Gomez. At cruiserweight Gomez was " unstoppable ", he was 6'4 and a southpaw with awesome speed and power, he defended 10 times his WBC. At that time Gomez was calling out Jirov but Jirov did'nt want part of Gomez! His competition may not have been A+ but it's the way Gomez handled them, very easily...

That statement was made by boxing experts not me, Juan Carlos Gomez is considered one of the best Cruiserweight Champs of all times, do your research...

You cannot put him down because of his HV failure, keep in mind that he started his career in Cuba as a middleweight, and he was never a natural HV like the rest. Add to that his cracy party womanizing drug and liquor lifestyle and that too made him more of a failure at the Heavyweights...

I am not blind as a Cuban fan, there have been other Cuban pros who I must admit never made it big because of their lack of dedication but Casamayor and Gomez were 2 very good World Champions!!!

 

Shouldn't really come as a surprise. Boxing is like a religion in Cuba, much in the same way rugby is in New Zealand. They will always pump out quality fighters.

 

Ricky, I told you before...

The Cubans love boxing possibly more than any other Nation, they will not abbandon the sport when Cuba opens up, even though that they will have more opportunities...

Their amateur success will definitely drop ( but not by much ) since the young kids will have another route ( the pros ), but either way Cuba will not ever stop producing " great boxers " in vast quantities of numbers...

Cuba's current amateur dominance has not declined, just suffered major " defections " of boxing stars like Gamboa, Rigo, Lara, Solis, Despaigne, Jhonson, Franco, Acosta, Dorticos etc. Those are all " Gold medal candidates " and they all left the team...

Of course, if Cuba is so good they should still replace those guys with new Lions but here is the situation. The situation in Cuba is at it's worse since 1959, the people there are " badly struggling " just to make it everyday now more than ever before. In the 80's up to the 90's, Cuban athletes still had " decent " training conditions but now around 2009 to 2010 the situation there is absolutely horrible. Even the " high class " athletes still have a daily struggle to survive.

There was an article that someone posted long ago that said that Yuriorkis Gamboa used to " steal soaps and towels " from International Hotels just to bring them back to his family members in Cuba !!!

 

Well said, the Cubans love boxing and baseball possibly more than any other Nation... :good

 

The "two" close fights with Corrales were split decisions. Yes, the same "great" Corrales that was utterly dominated by Mayweather and Clottey. Face it, Casamayor struggled against b level fighters like Corales and Freitas (and embarrased by Katsidis), and fell short against elite opposition, like when he did against Marquez (Marquez would have knocked him out regardless of age, and Marquez wasn't exactly young either when they fought).

Casamayor was nothing special. He didn't "dominate" anything. His "greatness" only exists in the minds of Cubans like yourself.

Amateur fights do not take away from "pro years". They wear oversized gloves and headgear, for goodness sakes, and the fights are much shorter. There are plenty of other pro fighters with huge amateur backgrounds. This is not a valid excuse to cover Cuban shortcomings in the professional rankings. By your logic Mexican fighters should "age" even quicker, since they don't have much of an amateur background but rack up experience fighting tons of pro fights (without the safety of headgear, shorter rounds, etc..)--yet you have good Mexican fighters in their mid to late 30's. Hopkins is also a unique case, there are no other 40+ year olds currently around that have been successful as him. Again, your attempt to mask Cuban shortcomings in the Pro's fail miserably.

Gomez was a decent fighter in a weak cruiserweight division. He didn't fight anyone of note, and he looks like an amateur with flailing punches. He is not in the same league as Holyfield, and he's damn lucky he wasn't around the cruiserweight division the last 5 years, when much better fighters came along.

 

Since I see that it's " pointless " talking to you as you are obviously a " Cuban hater " I will just say a few words and then get out of your life " forever "...

Let's just leave it now to the new " Cuban stars " that we have now campaigning in the pros and after " Gamboa, Rigondeaux, Lara and Acosta " clean up their weight classes and beat everyone in their paths then you will see just how good the Cubans can be. Let's forget Casamayor and Gomez already as their time has past and let's concentrate ourselves on the new rich Cuban talent available today...The Cubans have never had this many good boxers campaigning in the pros, way much better than when Gomez and Casamayor were fighting!!! And this time we will do 2 to 3 times better than in Casamayor's time, pretty soon the name Joel Casamayor and Juan Carlos Gomez will be almost forgotten as the new Cubans will take their boxing to a whole new level never seen before specially by people like you who doubt the Cubans...

After 2-3 years, you will realize just how wrong you were about Cuban fighters, that's all... Also, keep in mind that Casamayor and Gomez were not Elite fighters in Cuba, they were good but not the best in Cuba, over there they also lost a lot of fights!!!

Only time can and will " end our debate "... :good

 

I can only imagine if Mario Kindelan would have turned pro, dude wooped both Trinidad and Cotto in the amatuers, easy as one can imagine.

 

and if you want me to get more in detail, here you go

Famous fighters who got beat by Cuban fighters.


Felix Savon - Cuba
Defeated :
Shannon Briggs
Lamon Brewster
David Tua



Ariel Hernandez - Cuba
Defeated :
Chris Byrd


Juan Hernandez – Cuba
Defeated :
Kostya Tszyu
David Reid


Condelario Duvergel – Cuba
Defeated :
Shane Mosley



Hector Vinent – Cuba
Defeated :
Shane Mosley
Fernando Vargas


Mario Kindelan – Cuba
Defeated :
Felix Trinidad
Miguel Cotto
Amir Kahn


Ramon Garvey – Cuba
Defeated :
Antonio Tarver
Chris Byrd

 

Juanma will take care of Gamboa, somebody needs to tell Rigondeaux this is professional boxing not the amateurs, as for Lara he is nothing especial just a strong fighter but slow and predictable. The cuban hype ends there.

 

haha joker, always someone trying to avoid the obvious to sound like a smart ass.

 

Those Cuban fighters would have gotten their heads ripped off in the professionals by those very same names.

Amateurs means absolutely nothing...that's why they're called "amateurs." Every all time great has a loss in the amateurs, because that's where you learn. You think David Tua's loss to Felix Savon means something when he was just 19 years old? Savon would have **** his pants against the fully developed Tua that fought Ike Ibuchea. You get "famous" by developing your skills above and beyond the rest in the Professional ranks.