Whats with this idea that Joe Louis was a weak champ or not as great a fighter as once thought?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Rafaman, Oct 21, 2017.


  1. Rafaman

    Rafaman Active Member Full Member

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    I have noticed constant threads implying that Joe Louis might have trouble with fighters like Cleveland Williams or Tony Tucker. GET REAL!!!! Joe Louis should be any ones top 5 fighters who ever lived. I'm just waiting for the next thread. Let me guess??? Joe couldn't take down Anthony Joshua.

    Joe Louis at the time of his first retirement in 1948 his record was 58-1 (49 KOs). He was a monster in the ring and arguably the hardest puncher EVER - in any weight class. He had all the skills to be elite among all the ATG's. Outside of a handful of the greatest HW names like Tyson, Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Lennox, Dempsey, Johnson he would be a massive favourite.

    Cut the BS threads. Joe was a straight up legend and would smash most HW in any era. And in a rematch - good odds he KOS anyone silly. It really seems that Joe's long career particularly the comeback really hurt his legacy. Modern fans don't seem to hold him in such high esteem.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017
  2. Thread Stealer

    Thread Stealer Loyal Member Full Member

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    I think that happens to most fighters. Everyone is overrated or underrated, just depends on whom is rating them
     
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  3. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    It is fanciful to look at a minor player from one era and look for a better champion of the past he might beat.

    Usually, once any fighter has retired, even when considering changes from one era to another, his chances against a fighter from another era can only really stack up if they were equal in legacy and resume.

    Guys like Tony Tucker will always be Ernie Terrel level. That's who they can be matched with. Not guys like Louis. It won't stack up.

    Guys like Cleveland Williams will always be Pat Comiskey level. That's who they can be matched with.

    Tua will always be Shavers level.

    And so on and so forth.

    Louis and Ali can be matched. Holmes and Johnson can be matched.

    And so on and so forth.
     
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  4. Hookandjab

    Hookandjab Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I think this kind of thing is, unfortunately, common. It's a era-chauvinism mentality, the idea that fighters of the past aren't as good as the more recent boxers. I have to think that, according to his pre-comeback resume, he may well have been the greatest heavyweight champ who ever lived.
     
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  5. Ronnie Raygun

    Ronnie Raygun Active Member banned Full Member

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    Joe Louis great fighter
    The jack asses who say Louis over rated dksab and should go kill them selves
     
  6. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    No one is saying Louis is overrated but tucker is bigger has longer reach better legs very good speed, decent power good skills and a good chin. Why is it absurd to think that in his prime he could trouble louis? Alone his footspeed in combination with his size/reach should be enough to give louis some trouble. Then you add his boxing skills and chin and its a very competitive fight imo because of styles.
     
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  7. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Because he beat nobody and had a terrible mullet hairstyle
     
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  8. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Douglas beat nobody before tyson, rahman and mccall didnt exactly have a great resumee before they beat lewis either. Tyson had a good style vs tucker and still had some trouble. Louis' style imo is less favorable against tucker than tysons because he has less footspeed than tyson and not as good at getting close against a boxer without taking punishment. Louis imo has more trouble with that tucker than tyson
     
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  9. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    DO YOU SEE WHAT YOU'RE DEALING WITH RAFAMAN? Whether it be Tucker beating Louis, Cooney be as ting EVERYONE or some other asinine assumption, on classic forum SIZE AND BIG BODY BUILDING MUSCLES ARE EVERYTHING. And yes, there are threads already where no past great beats Joshua
     
  10. thistle

    thistle Boxing Addict Full Member

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    it mostly happens where Present & Recent years are promoted as being better than Past Era's, wrong.

    but it is also erroneous when & where fans, researchers or historians feel they have the absolute final word, truth or understanding on fighters and era's, again wrong.

    for me it is a SIMPLE Truth - SOME Modern Great fighters could & would compete in ANY Era, but it only works in Retrospect; WHY?

    2 Reason's.

    1) the Past IS Already PROVEN - 100s of Fights against great & good competition and For YEARS on end.
    2) the Honest Question; "would/could the Modern greats have 'still' been in the Top Circles had they had to fight Dozens & Hundreds of fights or would they have fallen by the way side sooner?"

    lastly, for me, too many people exalt too many fighters as 'untouchable or unbeatable' again wrong - the level between GREAT(Elite), Great, great is far too wide and ridiculously applied by some people... the difference of levels at the top isn't that wide at all... they are all True Top fighters, simple.

    could the BIGGER Tucker beat Joe Louis, of course he 'could', but for me Louis is an Elite GREAT and Tucker is a great excellent & Top Fighter - absolutely No Shame in that.

    anyway Boxing has too many other variables too that Favour some while Excluding others too... Boxing Sadly is a BUSINESS = Ownership, Investment, Corruption, Buying Decisions, Ratings and Opportunity, coverage & fanfare.

    knowing those Truths has taught me the respect & validity to recognise the excellence, devotion & dedication, skill, athleticism and validity of TOP Fighters. Thousands of GREAT, Great & great fighters have displayed their craft & hopeful efforts, while entertain us and making a whole lot of money for the BUSINESS of Boxing.

    and GOD Bless them for it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
  11. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I'm actually a bit embarrassed for anyone who comes here and says Louis wouldn't beat Tony ****ing Tucker.
    They embarrass themselves and the forum.

    Possibly there's a Tyson-loving agenda with that though, since Tucker might have been the best fighter Tyson ever beat (all things considered).

    Louis losing to Cleveland Williams is equally ridiculous.

    Louis was one of the all time, all round, perfect fighting machines. A classic boxer-puncher with one of the greatest records ever. He lost a fight in 1936 and didn't lose again until 1950, and holds the record for undisputed championship defences.
    I could go on and on. But all boxing fans with any knowledge of the history know the score.
    Absolute legend . Alongside Robinson, Ali, Armstrong etc.
     
  12. Tankatron

    Tankatron Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Too much is made of size in my opinion. Broadly speaking, Holyfield and Louis were similar height, weight and dimensions and Holfield competed superbly well in an era of Super Heavy Weights so it is perfectly reasonable to think that Louis would be no different. Add to that, that Louis is generally considered one of the hardest punching heavyweights of all time, a real assassin and sharp shooter when it came to his finishing and of course, Louis could hang with the very best in any era.
     
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  13. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    I hope no-one starts a Tua/Ike - Louis thread right now!!!!
     
  14. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I would love a technical breakdown of how he would do it easily. Tucker has faster feet. fact. Longer reach. Fact. Good enough chin to not be taken out by one shot.
    That alone makes it difficult. Would Louis find a way? Yes most likely. But considering that Louis struggled mightily with billy conn who had a shorter reach than tucker, i think it borders on Hero worship to not consider the possibility that louis might have some real trouble.
     
  15. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Thank you friend. Exactly the truth. The eye never lies and an astute man can SEE true greatness vs. Run of the mill. Just as after decades and more of watching boxing, a man can ascertain great fighters from dime a dozen pugs like Tucker.
     
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