Whats your definition of p4p and who's in your top 10?

fitzgeraldz · Feb 14, 2009

Vic Darchinyan moved up from Flyweight to super flyweight and is now talking about moving up to super bantamweight ... I think thats amazing ... no matter who you are. I don't think that highly of Darchinyan but i'm not 100% hater ... what that man is doing is something special - win or lose.

He beat Kirilov, Mijares, Arce, in his last 3 bouts ... stopped them all and gained an unofficial undisputed title in the process and this is after getting knocked out at a lower weight class.

There are talks of him fighting Israel Vasquez, Rafa Marquez and maybe even Juanma Lopez ... this is insane ... and I wouldn't doubt if this guy got a win over one of them.

He's awkward ... very hard to watch ... strong ... fast ... and limited ...

You know that someone is getting knocked out when he fights ... either him or his opponents.

Guys like Caballero, Hopkins, Cotto, and Hatton shouldn't be rated that high among the p4p elite.
Those guys are good and at some point in time they have moved up in weight but look at their class of opposition.

Hopkins only true win at LHW was Antonio Tarver
Cotto's only true win at WW is Shane Mosley
Caballero is a super bantam and hasn't moved up and won against any other elite fighters.
Hatton is 1-1 at welterweight and isn't looking to move up any time soon and even if he does there's no much confidence that he would win.

Then you have Williams who's fighting guys at 3 different weight classes ... beat 2-time champion Verno Phillips ... Carlos Quintana ... then beat Andy Kolle ... and he's scheduled to fight Winky and if he wins - he would solidify his p4p status.

Dawson who is fighting actual lightheavyweights ... and is undefeated ... started off at middleweight and has fought in 3 weight classes.

What do you guys think?

TFFP · Feb 14, 2009

I think that is a lot of horse ****.

Who you fight, not how much they weigh.

fitzgeraldz · Feb 14, 2009

TFFP said: ↑

I think that is a lot of horse ****.

Who you fight, not how much they weigh.
Click to expand...

what do you mean?

elaborate?

truewarrior · Feb 14, 2009

Thats why P4P rankings suck balls. Based on your theory Joe Calzaghe wouldnt even be on the P4P list but yet he was classified as #2 and sometimes #1.

fitzgeraldz · Feb 14, 2009

BazookaJab said: ↑

That's how I do my list, but I don't agree with what you said about Hopkins. Hopkins is a master from 160-175 and he could also dominate Adamek at 200. That's 40 ****ing pounds. Do you know any other fighters who can carry that weight and keep their skills? Hopkins is a dictionary definition of a "pound for pound" fighter.
Click to expand...

Hopkins is great, but he shouldn't be on that list currently ...

buckdacious · Feb 14, 2009

I justn think of a boxers accolishments latley, and how good he is a boxer. Pacquaio fits that all day. Williams would be up there but ppl duck him and beating Winky will be a good win but wont make him p4p

TFFP · Feb 14, 2009

fitzgeraldz said: ↑

what do you mean?

elaborate?
Click to expand...

You are talking a lot about who fought who in relation to weight.

Beating Andy Kolle is not better than beating Shane Mosley at 147. See what I mean? Just because you fight a bum at a higher weight it does not enhance anything. Verno Phillips is not considered a p4p talent, by any stretch of the imagination. I'm not particularly saying Williams should not be included, but the bottom line is quality of opposition, not fighting at different weights.

Fighter A fights top opponents in one division
Fighter B fights mediocre opposition across numerous divisions

Fighter A wins.

So overall I don't see great validity in what you were trying to say. If you fight great opposition in one weight class, that could be p4p talent. If you fight great opposition in numerous weight classes, that could be also. The main thing is who you fought.

Addie · Feb 14, 2009

My P4P list is based on who fighters have fought, how well they are doing against them, and how consistent they are.

1. Manny Pacquiao
2. Juan Manuel Marquez
3. Bernard Hopkins
4. Israel Vasquez
5. Ivan Calderon
6. Shane Mosley
7. Vic Darchinyan
8. Juan Manuel Lopez
9. Paul Williams
0. Ricky Hatton

No place for either Rafael Marquez or Miguel Cotto, two fighters coming off losses.

Juan Manuel Lopez is deserving. He is a World Champion, and the manner in which he is disposing of very good fighters is enough to have him in the list.

Paul Williams is moving up and knocking fighters out, and has wins over two highly rated Welterweights in Margarito and Quintana.

Ricky Hatton is on the cuff, but he has just dominated the 2nd best 140lb fighter in the world.

catasyou · Feb 14, 2009

You do realize the weight diffrence bwtween those is 6 lbs?

Beeston Brawler · Feb 14, 2009

IMO if you are a super flyweight and dominate your number one contender, that is better than moving up to bantam and beating a WBO level fighter.

fitzgeraldz · Feb 14, 2009

truewarrior said: ↑

Thats why P4P rankings suck balls. Based on your theory Joe Calzaghe wouldnt even be on the P4P list but yet he was classified as #2 and sometimes #1.
Click to expand...

NO Calzaghe would be on my p4p list but he wouldn't be #2 ... hell he would be on the bottom half of the top 10 ... there are guys who are doing the damn thing - p4p ... and p4p means that if at any given time, given the right circumstance - you would be dominate at any weight class you perform ... so that means a Manny Pacquiao can beat a David Diaz, then go up 2 weight classes to beat a much bigger Oscar De La Hoya.

That means a bigger Nonito Donaire can go down in weight and beat Vic Darchinyan.

Vic Darchinyan can go up to super bantamweight and be successful.

Rafa Marquez can move up from Bantamweight and have one of the best entertaining trilogies in boxing history.

That means that 135 pounder can go up to 154 lbs and win a title ...

P4p to me is guy like

Ray Robinson
Roberto Duran
Thomas Hearns
Henry Armstrong
Felix Trinidad
Floyd Mayweather
Many Pacquiao
DLH
Ray Leonard
Alexis Arguello
Pernell Whitaker
Julio Cesar Chavez

fitzgeraldz · Feb 14, 2009

thunder said: ↑

You do realize the weight diffrence bwtween those is 6 lbs?
Click to expand...

So what ... 2 pounds can make a significant difference if you've never fought there before ... you could be sluggish ... lose your power ... lose your speed ... lose some of your endurance

catasyou · Feb 14, 2009

So how is Cotto's only WW victory Mosley when you mention is on Williams's resume?Is it not the same person?That's double standard right there.But anyway allthis p4p talk is bull**** anyway as it can't be objective.

peter5 · Feb 14, 2009

TFFP said: ↑

You are talking a lot about who fought who in relation to weight.

Beating Andy Kolle is not better than beating Shane Mosley at 147. See what I mean? Just because you fight a bum at a higher weight it does not enhance anything. Verno Phillips is not considered a p4p talent, by any stretch of the imagination. I'm not particularly saying Williams should not be included, but the bottom line is quality of opposition, not fighting at different weights.

Fighter A fights top opponents in one division
Fighter B fights mediocre opposition across numerous divisions

Fighter A wins.

So overall I don't see great validity in what you were trying to say. If you fight great opposition in one weight class, that could be p4p talent. If you fight great opposition in numerous weight classes, that could be also. The main thing is who you fought.
Click to expand...

Again, agree totally.

Monstar · Feb 14, 2009

To me a to p4p fighter is a fighter that's proven to be the best in the world, regardless of weightclass.....and like the old saying goes, to be the best you gotta beat the best

and when I say proven, I don't just mean you do it once or twice and then fight lesser opposition for the rest of the year or so, I mean you're steady out there proven you're one of the best fighters the sport has to offer

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