Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Fergy, Nov 29, 2021.
#3 at welterweight and top 20 pfp atg.
Hes a very tough guy to judge accurately...almost a contrarian.
But I loved his gentlemanly smooth manners and easy going charm out of the ring.An entertaining style and lots of class..In the ring he had courage and charisma....on the one hand its clear he played cruel games with Marvin...waited until he got old ..and he didn't fight hearns in 84/85 ...hell even hearns-srl 2 in summer 1987 would have been electrifying....by summer 89 both were greatly disminished of speed and skills....but he did fight benitez Duran and hearns in their peak...and his eye ended his career...the fact he came back at all to fight and remain unbeaten against the other 3 Kings says a lot ...though I think the hagler fight was a draw,he lost to Tommy. All time great
Obvious ATG; quite possibly the best welterweight ever.
He is an all time great welterweight and took part in some great fights.
His career in 1976-82 was great but his comeback streak 1987-89 seemed increasingly dubious as he cashed in with over-ripe Super Fights.
I had Hagler winning their fight but definitely think Leonard going the distance (and nicking a contentious decision) deserve to add a lot more to Leonard's legacy, considering the layoff and lack of form Leonard was coming off. A great accomplishment regardless of who deserved to bag more rounds.
His subsequent fights were not impressive.
But in his prime he achieved plenty.
He was feeling 7-Up.
He would KO Mayweather in under 8 rounds ..
Always thought he one of the best fighters of my lifetime. So much talent, he was like poetry in motion. Had everything you could want from a great fighter.
Please tell us about the Norris fight !
Great welterweight, pne of the fastest fighters in history, period. Great finisher and unfortunately in later career a great schemer. He hurt his legacy by retiring and coming back several times. Despite this heś a top 3 welter of all time and a top 20, maybe even 15 p4p all time. He was gifted the Hearns rematch as a draw, and waited years before rematching Hearns and Duran. However he did beat Hagler IMO.
Top 5 ATG with his wins over Benitez, Duran, Hearns and Hagler. He beat all styles and the top top levels of those styles.
I think he does well in any era although I wonder how he does in the 1940s when guys fought 100 fights. He didn't have the mental strength of guys like Hearns and Duran and Hagler to fight 70 fights or more.. They had longer careers and seemed to be tougher. Ray was tough in the ring, but when he thought about boxing he seemed to have had enough of the pressure, something which did not affect the others as much.
He would do great fighting now. Unbeaten...
At his best the only welter you can rate higher is Robinson. May be the best P4P fighter of the second half of the 20th Century.
I would but that would be much too vulgar a display of power
and please call me Red. Mark Dunham is my stage name
that's pretty much how I see him but you described it much better
That's what I like to read!
He fought Hearns over a year after Duran beat him (and well after he made Duran quit in the rematch) when Hearns was considered one of if not the most dangerous welters in history.