whats your top ten p4p rating of all time?

Floyd Mayweather should be in there somewhere, certainly within the top 20, above the likes of Pernell Whitaker.

 

Sorry, while Saddler may have won the series "officially", I've never been impressed with the manner in which he won the last two fights, especially the second one when he reportedly refused to let go of his clinch when the referee tried to break him & Pep at the end of the 7th round (Pep was well ahead at that point in the fight and was outboxing Saddler in all but a couple of rounds), and as a result the twisting motion of the referee, Saddler, and Pep caused Pep to dislocate his shoulder and not be able to come out for the next round.

"If they say I twisted his arm, Ok, I twisted it." so said Sandy Saddler in the postfight.

I don't know about you, but I don't give credit for a win based on a freakish injury caused by a fighter admitting illegal tactics.

The fourth fight (third win) was and has always been described as a disgrace that neither fighter gained any credit for in the aftermath considering both were suspended by the NYSAC, as well as slammed in the press for their dirty tactics. I might be inclined to give Saddler a teenie bit of credit for that win based on the fact that most opinions state Pep was the instigator to a lot of the dirty stuff, but I can't give him full credit considering that the whole boxing world was crirical of both of their performances;

"Wrestling, heeling, eye gouging, tripping, thumbing, in fact every dirty trick known to the old timers in the days of the bare-knuckle bruisers was on display. Both boxers should have been tossed out of the ring long before the ninth round." - Nat Fleischer (one of many who said they should've been DQ'd)

Also the stoppage itself is puzzling, when, after being a little bit ahead on the cards, Pep failed to answer the bell because of a cut on his eye, which came after the ring doctor had just finishing saying to the referee that "the eye was fine", and "he can see clearly". It also left people wondering what happened because he didn't appear to be too hurt, but maybe Pep refusing to answer the bell backed up what he said in training just before the fight;

"At this stage of my career, all I want to do is do the best, make the most money I can, and do it without getting hurt."

Maybe that quote can be attributed to the first fight they had too, but I tend not to believe the fight was fixed, even though the press expressed those thoughts in the pre & postfights because of all the late money and large bets that came in on Saddler in the two days before the fight, as well as pointing out that Viscusi was overly adament about a return fight built into the contract, and some of the actual fight descriptions about Pep being "lacklustre", having "no spring in his legs", and being "ultra cautious".

There was enough there to think a fix was entirely possible, but like I said, I don't yet believe it was fixed, and will give credit to Saddler for that win (and a bit for the fourth, but not for the third considering...), and Pep credit for the second fight.

 

Not a chance.

 

Disagree mate.

As I said above, pre war my knowledge is limited so I tend to have to go off reputation.

For me though, Whitaker and Floyd is different (bearing in mind I do have Floyd in my top 35 of all time);

Amatuer career; both are level pegging. This is not something I would usually consider but given that both are defensive technical fighters I think it is worth considering in this case. Yes Whit got a gold but I think its fair to say that Floyd was cheated into a bronze, so for me its level there.

Natural weight; Floyd SFW and Whit LW. Many have Floyd as the best SFW of all time. I'll be honest, I'm not going to argue. I havent sat down and done a SFW list but off the top of my head I dont know of anyone I would put ahead of Floyd. Whit at LW - I have him as my #2 behind Duran. The only difference being for me here that at LW things are much more competitive (both in history and comparing Whit and Floyd's respective opponents). I'd edge this one to Whit. But I could be swayed - tough decision

Moving through the weights; Lightmiddle for Whit is same as Floyd's stay there. Welterweight - for me (probably controversially) Whit edges this too. Draw with Chavez aside he beat everyone comfortably until he faced DLH by which time he was old. Floyd for me doesnt have the resume at WW to count ahead P4P of Whit. I rate Floyd ahead of Whit H2H at WW though. I go Whit here on longevity and resume.

Career; Floyd. Hands down. Accomplishments and undefeated. Neednt say more.

Ability; Think this is where we are going to differ most Brawler... Whitaker for me. Mayweather is undeniably gifted. But Whitaker was unreal defensively. Given that this is probably Floyd's biggest stregth, I see Whit being stronger in this department.

Just my two pence worth...

 

how do you think he fares with guys like pac, arguello, floyd? i think 70s is fair enough although i think he'd be somewhere 65+

 

Leonard wasnt in his prime, he was a kid only a few years as a pro 24 years old I believe. Duran was in his prime. It was a close fight in which Ray being young wanted to beat Duran at his game. I think that second fight cleared up which one was the best.

 

1. Robinson
2. Duran
3. Louis
4. Ali
5. Hagler
6. Langford
7. Pep
8. Greb
9. Marciano
10. Armstrong

 

1. Henry Armstrong
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Harry Greb
4. Sam Langford
5. Roberto Duran
6. Benny Leonard
7. Sugar Ray Leonard
8. Ezzard Charles
9. Carlos Monzon
10. Pernell Whittaker

 

Anyone who puts PBF in top 20 is clueless

 

Where would you rate him?

 

About 35-40. He had all the advantages through his career, lost to Castillo In my opinion and didnt take any risks inside or outside the ring

 

I'm surprised not to hear Jones mentioned more.

I suppose this is based more on resume than H2H. :huh

 

Roy would come up in my #11 to #20 bracket, 100%

 

Prime Roy Jones would be top 10-15, but unfortunately for him, he never faced the kind of opponents the top 10 p4p fighters faced. Jones' opponents were never in his league

 

1. Armstrong
2. Robinson
3. Langford
4. Jofre
5. Charles
6. Greb
7. Duran
8. B. Leonard
9. Pep
10. Louis